Ep 012 Beverley Anderson-Abbs

Narrator: 0:10

Welcome to the Athletes in Motion Podcast From Race to Recovery. With your hosts, Tom Regal and Kenny Bailey.

Tom Regal: 0:29

Hey, Good morning, Kenny.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 0:30

Good Morning,Tom, how are you?

Tom Regal: 0:31

I'm fantastic. How are you today?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 0:33

I'm doing fantastic as well.

Tom Regal: 0:35

Right. We have a wonderful guest, Beverly Anderson Abbs to join us today. Welcome, Bev.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 0:41

Hey, thank you. It's good to be here.

Tom Regal: 0:43

Glad to have you on here. Super excited to have you. Beverly is a environmental scientist who happens to like to run a little bit. And when we say run a little bit, like run all the time, like ultra running. If you know anything about ultra running, you've heard of Beverley and she's amazing. She's got quite a long resume of races that she's completed. So we're excited to have you on here and talk about this, we want to talk about the mindset, along with the Vol State race that you just completed about what a month was a June. This is being recorded in August. So you just finished that one. So we're excited about that as well. So welcome Beverly, which give us some background, tell us about yourself, how'd you get into this ultra running thing from the environmental science side of things?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 1:29

Um, it's many, many years ago, I was always into running various athletic things throughout school. And then when I got out of school, I, I went to travel around Australia, and I did that on a bike. So that got me into doing long distance stuff. And you know, like spending a day out doing things. And when I came back and moved to San Diego, into bike racing, and eventually with my husband got into adventure racing. Not real, super excited about running long distances point. But as we got more into adventure racing, we started thinking, in order to be really competitive, we needed to be able to run a lot. So we started doing 50 Ks and 50 milers as training for the adventure races. And then eventually just drop the adventure racing and move fully into the ultras and and that's where I've been since the early 2000s. So pretty close to 20 years of just running a lot.

Tom Regal: 2:45

A lot. Yes. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 2:47

A lot. How? So? 20 years of that. I mean, is it does it? Is it always a new adventure when you come in now? Is it is it a different tactic? I mean, you've you've tackled distances that are quite extraordinary, right? Everything from you know, from an adorable 50k up to several 100 miles, is it what keeps that fire going on, on continuing to kind of want to push yourself,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 3:13

I try to not ever get down into training in a certain way. I, I, I consider what I do my fun. My running is fun for me. So as long as I'm keeping it fun and doing different things all the time, it just never really gets old and if it does get old, starts feeling like a job I just stopped for a little while I'll go back, I'll do some mountain bike races. I'll spend time climbing mountains, I'll just do other things. And eventually, my body will come back and say you want to run again. And it gets exciting again. So it's just for me it's all about just keeping it fun and doing different things. Now it's it's a good thing to do. It gets me outside is nasty and ugly. I do it.

Tom Regal: 4:11

So do you follow specific training programs? Do you work with a coach? Or do you what is it that how do you how do you set this up? Because it seems like you do quite a few races a year. And I know some people just race instead of train and then other people love to train. What is it for you that kind of blends that back and forth.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 4:31

I have rarely followed specific training plans. times when I've been doing on a marathon but for ultras I have it's just do what feels good. And if it doesn't feel good, don't do it. I've never had a coach. I consider myself uncoachable because I know if a coach said Don't do that race or don't race your mountain bike or don't climb that mountain, I would laugh and go do it anyway. So I've never with a coach because of that I not to say I don't listen to coaches, if somebody says something that I think is useful information that I hadn't really thought about, yes, I will take that into consideration and, and change possibly change what I'm doing based on that. I, I literally considered myself uncoachable because I'll do my own thing anyways.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 5:39

Your husband know that to like, because he tried to coach you, or is it? Is it more of a subtle kind of thing? Or vice versa? Oh, no,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 5:46

he wouldn't even try.

Tom Regal: 5:48

Smart man. Yeah, smart man.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 5:52

Actually I'm a certified coach. And I've tried to help him. And it's No, no. I've tried coaching him, and he totally ignores me. And then same thing for us. And we'll do it. So a long time ago.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 6:09

Yeah. As as you started. I'm curious to know about sort of those folks that gravitate towards a distance, like these types of distance? I mean, you can you can, you know, there's people that are like, Look, I want to try a half marathon. Now. That's a goal. Right? That's, that's a big deal. Right. And we're excited when we have people that are, you know, walkers are just now getting off the couch and want to do their first 5k. You know, it's just as exciting for them. It is, you know, for you when you come across a 50 miler, that sense of accomplishment. But was, was the Australia trip just kind of shown shown you that you're just you have that kind of slow twitch sort of, you know, mentality that can keep going? Or is it? You sort of, I guess the reason I'm asking because I'm a fast twitch guy trying to do an Iron Man, which I have no business doing. Right? So because I tend to like to do the faster, shorter stuff, but I'm trying to train myself, if you will, on the longer stuff. Did you? Did you just come naturally to you? Or do you? Have you seen other people that that you've raced against? Or that you've seen at races that that struggle with that as far as those distances? Or is it just you sort of you got what's in front of you, and you just sort of go and you're Okay, with that you? I'm curious to know about that part?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 7:24

Wow, that's probably a way of thinking about it that I hadn't really considered before. But I suppose it's been just kind of natural to me to be able to do that, that kind of stuff. And, you know, when I get into these longer distances I can go for ever at that low level of output. But when I start getting into night travel, I am not good with sleep deprivation. So that's been something I've had to overcome with these longer events. And, you know, the first couple of times that I did, Vol State, and then the Heart of the South I, and then with my husband, Al, and I was the one who handled all the day stuff if we needed, you know, extra water if he needed help with his salt intake. If he was in, I took care of that. The night was his to take care of me. And yeah, keep me from wandering into traffic when I was falling asleep. Yeah, thanks. So that was, that's always been something that I've had to overcome. And even when we were doing adventure races, I can remember adventure races where we were going overnight, and I would literally be sleeping as I was walking and the guys on the team would just keep me going in the right direction.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 8:48

Wow!

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 8:50

that was me. So you know, out there just it keeps going on and you just you get into a routine of it. And you know, for something like Vol State, it's just looking forward to the next town, it's looking forward to the next telephone pole, whatever, just to keep yourself moving through some of those situations. But, you know, the longer you go, the more adventure there is in it and the more interesting things you've come to it, so it keeps you thinking it keeps you moving. Looking forward to those things.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 9:29

For those who don't know, give a brief explanation of Vol State what what does that race entail?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 9:36

Vol State or the full name of it is The Last Annual Volunteer State Road Race

Kenny Bailey<br>: 9:42

rolls off the tongue.....

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 9:43

Yeah, it does. Yes. It's a race that goes essentially across Tennessee. It starts in the north west corner of Tennessee, and cuts down through the middle to end up more or less in the south east. corner, where Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee meet at that point that is 314 miles. And for Vol State, you can choose to run either crewed or screwed. Crewed you can have any number of people driving along stopping giving you water, washing your feet, whatever they want to do for you. If you race uncrewed or screwed, you have nothing you're on your own, you get food and water at mini marts, there are a number of people along the course who will put out coolers for runners with Gatorade and snacks and things that you're completely on your own to cover that 314 miles. So it's a pretty big undertaking. The people who are racing it are doing it in like three to five days, there's, but there's a 10 day cutoff. So if you look at it as just an adventure, there are people who do their 32 miles a day and get a hotel and they turn it into literally a vacation on foot. And that's a pretty cool way to see, really. And the people of Tennessee are amazing.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:26

That's neat,

Tom Regal: 11:26

nice.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:27

So which one did you do? Did you do the crewed or the screwed?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 11:32

I have done screwed in every iteration that I've done.

Tom Regal: 11:37

Nice.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:38

I'm sorry, Which one did you prefer? Or is it just a different challenge?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 11:43

I guess for which one did I prefer? Of what?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:48

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought did you do both screwed and crewed?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 11:51

No, no, I always done screwed.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:53

Sorry. Really? Okay, sorry, the the video the audio cut out. So you you just find random. That's fascinating. So is there.

Tom Regal: 12:05

So this is the this is out of the mind of Lazarus Lake right? The race director who's Barkley marathons, fame and dogs. big backyard ultra. So this is this is his brilliant, very disturbed mind of some of the exciting things that he puts out there as these things show you you get a route map beforehand, right? You get at least a general direction. You need to go I know the South the one in the south. That is not you don't know into the day of but this one I think you get a full map ahead of time.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 12:40

That's correct. Yes, for Vol State the course is the same and has been same for I think seven or eight years. So you know the course you know where the various towns are, you really know where the major road they're gonna be set up. There's a few that coolers they'll just pop up because somebody has heard about it and they want to help out. But there's there are a few what are called road angels who want to really help out the runners and they'll set up pop up tents and cots and have food out there I went through one and they had a microwave oven. They had a an extension cord going into their kitchen to get heat up soup outside for you and you know blankets and towels. So it's it is a very well established event. The new one, the Last Annual Heart of the South. He's changing that course every year. So I've done it twice and it's really different course each time. And the reason for that is he wants people to not have the assistance of those amazing road angels and really be on their own for that event. Kind of backfired on him because so many people found out about it, but you know, they they found out where the course was the night before and they were still coming out helping runners on part of this.

Tom Regal: 14:21

super friendly people out there.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 14:23

darn southerners!

Tom Regal: 14:24

They are so nice,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 14:25

so nice. They should do this in New York and amazing. Do it in Boston right now.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 14:34

There was one point, part of the South this year I was running with another guy, James Fleming and we were cruising along the road and a sheriff's vehicle, turned on his lights and pulled into a parking lot that we were coming up to and we were like oh my gosh, no. What is going on. And as we get closer, he gets out of the car with a couple of bottles of body armor and says, I just want to make sure you have a good day here.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 15:08

That's great.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 15:13

Just they kind of pop up out of nowhere. And it's just an amazing experience.

Tom Regal: 15:19

I think that kind of gives you a good sense of feeling about the country, sometimes even when everything else seems to be in complete turmoil that there's still a little bit of some nice people out there and people care about other people. I think that's, I think that's probably fun. makes it really enjoyable.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 15:33

Yeah, and you know, over this last couple, it's been a real positive infusion of that, to be able to go over to Tennessee and have that kind of love pouring out helping all these people just doing stupid things. Really, we're running down highways,

Tom Regal: 15:58

and the storms and everything else. Oh,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 16:00

yeah, no kidding. Yeah. No. Is there a so there's it to me, there's quite a big of a jump between like doing 100 miler and doing 312 across the state unassisted like is at some point in time on the mileage, it just doesn't matter. Like to your point, I have this theory where like, when endurance folks, you get to this sort of plateau, and you try not to get you know, if you spike up, that's when things go wrong, but if you just stay on that plateau, is it after 100 miles to get silly? Or is it after like 150 gets silly? At what point does? Does the mileage not matter? Or does it always matter? I guess would be the question.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 16:37

Um, I on something like Vol State or Heart of the South, I would probably argue that once you get past the first day, it doesn't matter. Okay, since doesn't matter, you're just moving forward. So you know, the different for everybody for for me my first day at Vol State the first 12 hours was like 57 miles. So once I got past that, it's just continuing to move and keep going and you know, look for whatever's coming up next, and, you know, with with Vol State and and more so with Heart of the South, because nothing is open in Tennessee after like eight o'clock, it's just like, Tennessee closes eight o'clock at night, you know that you're going to be completely on your own through the dark. And you just you have to be aware of that. Prepare to have enough food and fluids to get another 12 to 14 hours that's you know, it's just kind of continuing forward and keep moving with

Tom Regal: 17:47

as they don't they don't open up early either. That's the other bonus 6am? No, 8 maybe kind of kind of rolling around nine ish.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 17:58

Right South is really nice between 9am and 9pm. So that's solid 12 hours really nice people after that, leave us alone. Yeah, the whole idea but yeah, very good. So with that, what was it you know? They always say that on triathlons. Anyway, that nutrition is a fourth discipline right? It's is that the same when you start what point is it? Is it mainly nutrition or how do you how is it hydration What are those things that is a blisters? is it yeah all the above? Probably I know but like we were gonna ask you like what was it What's your latest rash right because that's probably

Tom Regal: 18:37

Chafing is a big topic for us (laughing)

Kenny Bailey<br>: 18:38

Chafing Yeah, so we just say thing called a chafing and that's that's the word we were trying to figure out that's our that's our go with that what what is it that after after so long is it is it is it the touchpoints is it those things that normally are just like okay, starts getting bigger or is it neuro muscular is it gi what what what do you what do you get scared of not scared of it? What do you start paying a lot more attention to it.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 19:04

So different in every event that I mean, it's hard to pinpoint it this year because in Ball State because it was raining so much. I had huge problems with my feet. I had blisters forming, I had trench foot starting. You know, for me, it was all it was all about where can I stop next and buy new socks because I need to dry socks constantly. Where can I stop where I'm out of the rain and I can take my socks and shoes off and try to dry my feet out. So that I'm starting over again. That is something I'm not experienced in any of the other of these events that I've done. So that was big for me this year. The food food you pretty much because you're you're totally reliant on mini marts. Pretty much just have to Tell your even if I don't feel like eating, I need the nutrients. I need food in my system, so it's, you know, whatever you can get hold of and two years ago we did Vol State, the big thing was chicken biscuits, we can get chicken biscuits anywhere. And they were great. Great. Yeah, and it's just me the food eat this. This year I really had trouble finding chicken bisuits.

Tom Regal: 20:30

really?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 20:31

So yeah, I don't know what it was. So it was, you know, I had to find something else. And it turned out that corndogs like

Tom Regal: 20:40

this, any calories a good calorie at that point. So funyuns and dogs shovel it in and keep going.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 20:48

I was gonna say nothing like a, you know, a mini Mart breakfast burrito to get your day going. Right? So

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 20:54

that will work too. One thing I have never done is go somewhere where I have to order food, like extreme places, a lot of people will stop and they'll get McDonald's or whatever. I've never done that if I can't just pick it up off of the mini Mart shelf or roller thingy. I'm not doing it. It's not

Tom Regal: 21:19

Yeah, it's not. If it's not sitting under a heat lamp for a couple of hours before and it's just not your thing.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 21:26

It's just you must have the stomach of like a rock or something. Because I just I've my gi system would absolutely like,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 21:33

you know, well. No, that's something that you have to be prepared to deal with. I actually had a struggle this year, almost 24 hours I I'd stopped and I got a chicken, then chicken and cheese chimichanga at Fatman.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 21:56

None of that is good!

Tom Regal: 21:57

I'm going to track that down......

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 22:04

It was so much grease that my system just couldn't handle anything else. And it was close to 24 hours before I can eat anything again. So it was just keeping my movement at that low, slightly low level that it didn't get my stomach really upset. And you know, there was there was a section where it was like a six mile downhill that I was trying to jog. And I would be able to go for about five minutes and then just have to stop and felt like I was going to throw up and then that would pass and I can jog another five minutes. And you just kind of try to get that low level where you can keep moving. Yeah, yeah. And you know, when you're there, you're kind of hoping that you actually will throw up. And get that out of your system. yeah, yeah, it just never happened.

Tom Regal: 23:03

I try to explain that to people that if you're getting to a point where you're nauseous, in a long race and doing stuff, just throw up, just make yourself throw up, you'll feel so much better. Just it means get rid of that. start fresh, right, a little bit of water, and then you're gonna eat again, be perfect.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 23:18

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 23:20

So I think the question that I always have about the the distance stuff is when you're when you're some people when they get to a spot that's difficult, like a GI issue or other issues, they're like, Okay, that's it, my day is done. But somehow I think, you know, Tom does Ultraman you're doing big, long distances, you know, there's going to be sort of a valley of death, right? You know, there's going to be a spot in it almost like you have confidence in knowing that you can get, there's going to be another side to it. How do you It sounds good. But when you're in the middle of it, I know I'm in the middle of like, you know, issues when I'm on a bike, I just want to shut down and go Okay, that's enough. I'm going to live to fight another day. How do you get through? I mean, what's that mentality to get through that? is it and how do you distinguish between Okay, this is a phase and this isn't. And I'll just give you an example. I've just read I think Tom and I were talking about earlier, you know, Tim O'Donnell had a heart attack in the middle of his bike portion on an Iron Man on a triathlon. 300 watts. He had a heart attack, and he finished and still finished. 11th overall, I mean, that's insane.

Tom Regal: 24:20

And not a minor heart attack. The widow maker Heart attack, like like, yeah, massive heart attack,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 24:26

and he's like, wow, that hurts. But you know, I gotta finish it if I can get on the run. Right. So how do you how do you distinguish? How do you get through it? And then or what do you tell yourself? And then you know, at what point do you go Okay, that's, that's, that's not gonna work. How do you draw that line? I guess.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 24:40

I might have drawn that line at a heart attack. (laughter)

Kenny Bailey<br>: 24:45

Fine, really? Are you committed Bev? Are you committed?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 24:50

I suppose if it was just a little one I might have continued...... But there there are some things that you know are going to be Just a phase. And I will tend to try to work my way through those things. So the the stomach issues, when you still have two days to go two and a half days to go, you know that that's going to pass, it would be if it were a stomach issue, like I had in a 50 miler, that might have been a different case, because that wouldn't have passed, although I would probably think it's going to suck, but I'm going to be done shortly. If something happens that I am pretty sure, if I continue, I'm going to mess myself up for a long time afterwards, like an injury, torn muscle, things like that, I will err on the side of caution. If I were 20 years younger, probably push through things that I know are these. Now. I know, it's going to take a really long time for me to recover from certain types of injuries. So I will I will tend to pull out in that, you know, with the Last Annual Heart of the South, in June this year, I was in the front, I was winning, running with James Fleming, we were doing like a six mile downhill out of the mountains. And I felt a pop behind my knee and you know, kept going, it wasn't super painful. About an hour later, I sat down to do some stuff with my feet. And notice a whole back of my leg bruised and swollen. And I started thinking back and I thought, okay, that pop meant something. And this is a bad thing. So I made the decision to not push that to a point that it might tear. And I wouldn't be able to recover from it. And I dropped out of Heart of the South and I came back I got to the doctor if it had torn part of the insertion of my hamstring. Most of the swelling was a baker's cyst that had developed because of the tear. So they drained that they dealt with that. And now the doctor said, there's not a lot else we can do. Just keep it warm so that the blood doesn't clot up in then around the muscles and you know, start doing massages keep that the blood moving? Yeah. The and I said, So would it be ok for me to go back and do another 300 miles in three weeks? And his response was, well, I probably wouldn't, but I wouldn't have done it to begin with. So, you know, as long as you take it easy and don't don't do any explosive motions that are going to continue to tear the hamstring. I don't see that there's any reason why you can't. So that was you know, that was something always in the back of my mind for a Vol State is and you know, when you're running 300 miles, you're not really going to be doing explosive motions. I'm not going to be sprinting. Sure. This is good.

Tom Regal: 28:26

Yeah.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 28:26

So, you know, I went back, knowing that I had an injury thing I needed to be a little more cautious. But I had on the Heart of the South, I chose to not push it. So it's you know, it's balancing What do you think you can get through? And what do you think might mess you up badly?

Tom Regal: 28:50

So when you're when you're doing this, so the mindset, you're a scientist, do you approach your training, you're racing, running endurance with kind of that science mindset of checking the boxes, what's working, what's not working and having a really good sense of what your body can and can't do is that kind of the approach you take to it?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 29:13

Pretty much I you know, as as a scientist, my running is to get me away from my job. So I try not to put too much thought into Okay, the running stuff. And you know, I've I've been watching Bob Hearn who won Vol State, in looking at the stuff that he's posting and he, you know, he spends hours and hours just downloading his data and going over his data and, you know, preparing spreadsheets for splits and, and it's, you know, that's cool and, and if this were my job, I would probably do that. For me. The running is not my job so I try not to do that kind of stuff. But pointed out, do I go over my body? Do I check in with myself? Yes, absolutely. You know, my, my initial education was not in environmental science, it was in essentially Kinesiology and functional morphology. So I am well aware of what my body should be doing. If things are going wrong, I know what's going wrong, and how to generally how to take care of it. So do all back on that and just sort of check in with my systems constantly as I'm going. And that's, you know, that's something that everyone should do. You might not have that kind of background, but good with yourself. And if you're running, you know, a 5k, 10k, or 100 miler, constantly check in and ask yourself, could my body keep doing this for x amount that I have left? And if your answer is no, then you might want to back off a little bit. Yeah. But, you know, it's, it's about being aware of what your system can do. And using it to its fullest.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 31:17

You've, you noted here that you suffered from overtraining syndrome, if you can give us a little kind of description of that, and how did you know you were doing that? Or did someone have to tell you like, Look, how did that come about? And how did it manifest itself? And then how did you get out of it? Let's do the arc.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 31:36

That was one of those periods where I was actually sort of following a training plan recently. And what happened with that is, I had signed up to run the California international marathon in December of 2020. It got cancelled because of COVID. But they put out a training program to build up and then they were doing it as a virtual so you could still be involved in all this. So I, I figured, okay, whenever I'm signed up for it, I'll do the virtual and I'll follow their training plan. So I, I did actually lock myself into the training plan, which, which was not a bad training plan it had building up your long runs over the weeks, and doing certain things during the weekdays and whatnot. But I didn't give myself those breaks, I didn't say, I don't feel like running, I'm gonna go for a mountain bike ride, I don't feel like running, I'm going to go climb a mountain. I didn't allow for that ended up I think it was, gosh, like 12 or 14 weeks. And all I did was follow this training plan. And I I knew as I was getting towards the end of it, the long runs, were getting up, like 18 and 21 miles. And those are each weekend. And I started as I was getting to that point, I started recognizing that the runs were getting harder than they should be. My resting heart rate wasn't coming back down to what it should be. And just those little signs that I know I should be paying attention to, but I was on this training plan.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 33:36

Follow the training plan.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 33:38

Right, right. So I just kept going and I did those last couple and just, you know I did the 18 mile and was destroyed for two days. And then I did the 21 mile and again was destroyed for a couple of days. That thought okay, I got to do this, the marathon, it's next week. I'm just gonna get it done with and I went out and started going and I got to like about my mile 12 and I had to stop and walk. I had zero and I got to mile 13 and Alan had passed me and was now ahead of me on our little virtual course. And I got to 13 and turned around to head back and at about miles 17 or 18 I was catching him. So I been able to pick up after walking for a mile I've been able to pick back up and keep going and I kept going and it was just a slog for me and I know my my pace was gradually getting slower and slower and slower. But I made it I did my 26.2 miles and added a little extra to make sure It loaded properly on Strava and all those stupid things to deal with. And I had set it up. So I would end and I'd have them but a half a mile to walk home. And just do a bit of a cool down that way. And I finished that. And I started walking home. And my legs just went into these horrible cramps. And by the time I got home, my left leg had seized up so badly, I could barely walk. And, you know, I got into the house, I showered, I laid down for a little while. And when I got up, I could not walk. I couldn't put any weight on my left leg. And that was it. And my whole system had just completely shut down. And for me, it was, I think it was like, 2 weeks before I even tried to run again, it was by the next day, I can polls because I couldn't put on my left leg. I messed that up so badly by pushing through what I was dealing with. And I went out and I did like a half a mile in. At a 40 minute pace. So 20 minutes to go half a mile. And I was excited. Then the next day, I got mile and 20 minutes. And then it was just like, plying my way back, what can I walk? How can I pick up my walking? And it was, I think it was literally two weeks. And I started doing five minute walk one minute run, and just started building up from that, but it was I I really dug a hole pushing through and trying to follow that training plan. So

Tom Regal: 36:47

Did you...? I'm sorry, did you change nutrition for that recovery period? I mean, to bounce out of this overtraining? I mean, is it? Is it not just a little bit of rest? And kind of slowly getting back into it again? But did you have to eat differently? Did you have to like more protein, more carbs, something along those lines?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 37:05

I really don't. Yeah, I didn't change what I was eating. I'm I eat a fairly high protein diet. And, you know, I and it's chicken and fish and things like that clean diet and then a lot of vegetables. So I really didn't change that. I did start drinking a lot more than I normally do. I'm I'm

Tom Regal: 37:30

Water?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 37:32

water, electrolytes. Drinking, I tend to stay in a slightly dehydrated state because I have to go to the bathroom a lot. So I know during the day, I just don't drink because I don't want to be going back and forth constantly. But this during this period, I really was making sure that I was constantly electrolytes, just water, whatever, just keeping the fluids in my system. And making sure I didn't go into that slightly dehydrated state for a few weeks of that. But yeah, it's it's hard to claw back out of a situation like that. And you know, the big thing for me, the way I can detect where I am with the whole overtraining, my normal resting heart rate is in the low 40s. And after that horrible marathon, my resting heart rate was sitting in the high 60's. So once it got back down to the 40s, I figured Okay, I'm, I'm getting back down, and I can start my training again and then do those things. But that's something that's very important for people to watch is, what is that resting heart rate doing? There's a lot of things you can look at. But that's one of the key pieces of information to know if you're overtraining or not is is that resting heart rate coming back down?

Tom Regal: 39:06

Yeah, cuz if you're just tired and you just unmotivated to get out is not the same thing. And if but if you can see that you've got your I mean, everyone's most everyone is tracking their daily, you know, numbers, whether they've got the full on Whoop thing going on, or whether they're just tracking it with other you should have a at least a base idea of what your what your your resting heart rate is. And if it's 20 beats higher, and it won't go down and yeah, then that's something to look at. But I would say most people probably don't even get close to that. But it is something to keep an eye on. I mean, it's just and I think as you pointed out, if you don't feel good if you're not doing that, not to not to push through that, especially in your training as you're going along just because you want to stay on that training program. I think it's huge to know that. I know as I'm getting older I'm I'm two feet firmly on the other side of the second cent half century I'm enjoying this part of it. But I also know that I take more rest days than I used to. It's, it's just my body will go, and then I just know I just need a day off. And I'll just do something easy, I'll take a walk, I'll do something else. And just to kind of, and I bounce back faster, and I get stronger. But anytime I try to push through these training plans where I'm 14 days in a row, before I get a rest day, or even seven days in a row, before I get to rest, it doesn't work anymore. Right? It just, it's just not there. And, and I'm still getting stronger, I'm still getting stronger, and I'm able to go longer distances and all that. But I think that's a key component of knowing your body and kind of watching those. Those things.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 40:42

Yeah, I'd say absolutely. That's something that people really need to pay more attention to I I see people posting all the time. But I feel unmotivated and tired. I'm dragging Should I go out and do my run and everyone else, everyone's coming on. Go and run, you'll feel better and go on say no. If you feel that awful, just take a day off. It doesn't do you any good to push through feeling awful. And, and you know, there's a fine line because there are some some days where, yeah, you don't want to go for a run. But once you get out there, you do feel better. Those days, and after 20 years of doing this, if I feel awful and shouldn't be running. I know. And I just don't run.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 41:33

I think there's a That's the beautiful irony, I think with with ultra distance folks like on the one hand, you know, during a training session, if you feel awful, you just need to stop. And then in the middle of the of the middle of the of the fight, if you will, you feel awful. And you have to just push through it right to the point. So it's a weird sort of irony that goes along. When you when you approach these now, right? You're you're with I think you're you're over 50 right, I believe right?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 42:01

a ways.(laughing)

Kenny Bailey<br>: 42:02

Okay. So how do you approach it? Do you approach it differently now than you did 15 years ago? Is it? Is it the same? But just a little bit? to Tom's point? Do you just take a little more rest days? Or when you approach a race? Have you had to change sort of the way you've done it? Or are you have you just gotten a lot smarter, so you know, sort of what to expect, probably both right?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 42:24

Probably a little bit of both, I do train very differently than I did, you know, 15-20 years ago, when, you know, when we were younger, we would go out for you know, 12 hour training days. And I just don't do that anymore. I if if I need if I feel like I need something that be 12 hours, I'll enter a race. And I'll do it that way. And I'll keep my training sane, and do a race for a long training day. But I just I, I I guess over the years, I've learned to listen to my body a lot better than I used to, you know, 15-20 years ago, if I felt awful, I would go out and do whatever anyways, and I probably do a harder run than I would normally have planned to kind of beat my body into submission. But now I'm I'm much more likely to say I don't feel good. Something's going on. Let's just go for a walk or let's do a an easy hike or something like that. So I definitely pay attention to how my body is feeling. And don't try to push through some of these really low periods.

Tom Regal: 43:48

and I don't, I don't think people give enough credit to cross training. The fact that you're moving, I mean, anytime I've had an injury, and my legs while we're running was was kind of hindered. But it was okay to be on the bike, the bike is still helping, your running, you're not getting the pounding, but you're still getting the motion, you're still getting through that. And I think when you mentioned earlier is like, I'm just gonna go for a mountain bike ride today, or I'm just gonna go for an easy spin on the bike out here or I'm going to do people don't realize that it's just, it's movement. And I think that's what we've tried to, you know, kind of tell our audience is that it's, you're an athlete, if you're moving, you don't have to be super special, you don't have to do anything, you just move, let's just if we're active, we're going to be much better off as we get older, that add that activity is the most important thing and to kind of balance it in a long term sense. You know what, none of us are making millions of dollars on this. I mean, I I'm assuming we're all not making millions of dollars on this. So it's, it's, you know, it's it. I personally don't have a paycheck tied to It'd be great if there was but you know, it's More for a lifestyle. It's more for fun, and it's more, because we feel good about it. So I think more people need to understand that movement is key that those training days can be easy. Maybe it's you just do a few laps in the pool, but you kept your body moving. And you did that and you just broke up made it a little bit different. You didn't get that repetitive running all the time. So yeah, I think people need to give a little more credit to that.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 45:26

Yeah, I would agree with that. I am part of what I've adding different things into my training, and I don't call it training. I do go for a bike ride. I you know, we jump to mountain bike races this year, and all my running friends were like, oh, what you're not going for a run. Like you go for an hour mountain bike race. You're getting a whole lot more cool. Yeah, than slogging six miles or running. So, you know, it's it's been an move back into multiple sports a couple of years ago, into a house with a swimming pool, which I had sworn I never wanted a house with a swimming pool. But it was a cool house. We liked everything else about it. And then I said, I'm gonna have a swimming pool. On I'm gonna swim. I started just adding swimming into stuff. And I don't do a lot of good. But it keeps me and it's, you know, it's arms and shoulders better. It's just something different. And it's continuing, those movements. And you're absolutely right, Tom, that a lot of people don't give that kind of stuff enough credit. Just get out and move.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 46:46

Yeah. So for the folks that are listening, right, so people I dabbled in my first 50k last year, because I needed I needed an oh shit moment, like I needed something to slightly scare me to get me out of there kind of that COVID sort of, you know, I there's no races, so why do I even need to, you know, why am I putting myself through this training. And by the way, Tim Sorensen's fired since I don't have need a training program anymore. So thanks, Tim. So I just heard news right now, no training program needed just go out and do stuff. Thanks. Sorry. So he's gonna be listening to this...... was supposed to help her. So for those people that are that are interested in doing, is there a couple of things that I know you've been doing this for a while, I mean, reach back to like, when you were new, and it was exciting, and all that sort of stuff? Is there a couple of things that people need to be aware of? Are there a couple of stuff that's non obvious? As people start ramping into really big miles like that? Is it just do more of what you're doing instead of doing eight to 18? Or does fuel become more important? What are those things that people as they start increasing? Is it you know, rash prevention? is it's you know, is it? What would you what wisdom would you impart on folks that are saying, okay, I want to make that leap to 50k or 50 miler.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 48:21

Having never had a rash. I'm gonna veer away from that.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 48:26

That doesn't.... I mean I got a rash the other day! No kidding.

Tom Regal: 48:30

It's a lot more wet here.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 48:33

Everyone talks about chafing and rashing. And it's like, What are you talking about? How is this happening?

Tom Regal: 48:39

Oh, my God, that's awesome.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 48:43

And having said that, you know, doing Vol State and these other things, I have had chafing from the packs. Yeah. So there has been that but other than that, I, that's an issue I've had to deal with. Yeah, so I can't really respond to that. But, um, I would say, the big thing is just to be aware of your body, really pay attention to what's going on. If there's something that doesn't feel right. Figure out what it is and figure out how to correct it early. For blisters. Typically, I don't get blisters. But, you know, as I mentioned, with the wet that we had at Vol State, my feet were a mess. Figure out what you need to do. There's all kinds of books that teach, how to tape for blisters and what to do for blisters. If you, you know, if you're getting into running and you get blisters at 10 miles and you want to go to 50 miles. Think about what you can do proactively tape. You know, figure out how to deal with those blisters. For upping mileage. Just be careful. Again, pay attention to what your body's doing. It to not go into really high miles, like I said, if I want high miles, I'll race rather than train. I'm kind of different. You know, a lot of people are saying, Oh, I just love running. If I could never train and just race, and do as well as I do, I would do that. Because it's the racing that keeps me going. And, you know, for me, I just, I always need that carrot out there, I need something to be training for. But if you're just going out to train, do it smart. Build your miles slowly, don't be that person who says, Oh, I can run 10 miles, I'm gonna go and do 18. Yeah, you're very likely to hurt yourself. So you know, build those miles slowly take care. You don't have to do 300 mile run, do what you enjoy. Don't just keep pushing. It's I'm seeing over and over again, in social media, how people just keep pushing to the next level. And they, I don't know that many of them are really enjoying what they're doing. They're just, they, they see it out there. And they see other people talking about it and feel like they have to jump on that. Do what you enjoy, and just have fun doing it.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 51:18

Do you? Do you have like a I think one of my biggest problems is like, I'm getting ready for Ironman California. Right. And I'm like, you know, my, my goal is always just finish. Right? Hey, just go have a good race, you know, feel good when you get across the line. But I want to make sure I do it, you know, 12 hours? Make sure right. Yeah. Well, my you know, I've had 11 in it. That'd be awesome. Right? Yeah. But you know what, I'm just there to finish right? I'm just there to do. But if I just do you? And I'm horrible like that, right? I have this internal thing. Like if I'm not going fast enough. I mean, that's one of the biggest problems with the swim is I get frustrated because I think I you know, I'm the slowest one in the water. And, and you know, I should be going faster, whatever speed I'm going is not fast enough. D when you show up to these events? Do you have an expectation in your head? Like you've been very successful to? Well, two questions on this one, when you show up? do you do? Do you have an expectation on I want to finish at this time? Or does the course and your body tell you what it's going to be? That's question one. And then I guess the second question would be when you do show up, do you look around and go, Oh, yeah, I got this. Like, just like, do you see the other competitors and go? I mean, because you're at a point now where it's just like, there's a handful of people. You just look around and go, yeah, this one's mine. I got it. Sure. I'm

Tom Regal: 52:35

sure the other competitors are the same way. They

Kenny Bailey<br>: 52:38

Bev's here. Great, awesome. So awesome. Great.... Bev made it....that's awesome.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 52:49

I've actually heard say that when they see me.

Tom Regal: 52:54

I bet I bet. Yep. Absolutely.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 52:56

It's a great community, you know, until the race starts, like,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 53:01

right, right. Um, as far as what I expect to do, I try not to put super high expectations on myself, because I just never know. Yeah, you don't know, if you're going to twist an ankle or have stomach problems or whatever. There's always in the back of my mind, there's always a, like, two. But I almost never will voice that. Yeah, I there was a 50k years ago that I that my goal was a course record. And I absolutely would not say that out loud. And I got to like this second last aid station, and everyone was like, Oh, my God, you've got the course record, this is awesome, just, you know, eight miles to go or whatever it was. And I just I left that aid station, I was like, I cannot let that come out. I cannot do that. And I immediately went up onto this ridge line that we had to run. And there was like 40 mile an hour headwind. By so and, you know, consequently, I missed the course record by like, five minutes or four minutes or something. And so I'm always I always try to keep myself humble about what's going to happen out there. And I, I have I don't think I've ever come out and said, I will do this. Because I just don't know. I don't know if I answered your question.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 54:40

You did. Well, there's a there's Um, there's a goal to finish write it, which is more important than to finish. Like there's some competitors and I'm one of them and it's like, hey, if I'm not going to go at like I'll be even if it's a 40 mile an hour wind like somehow I'll be disappointed. Because I have this thing in my head where I'm okay, I'm not going to hit it. And now this is no longer fun. It's, well, what does it matter anymore, I'm not going to hit this anyway where you're not enjoying the journey. And I think what I'm hearing is finishing is far and away the most important thing to do, and I'm going to get that done. If I can finish with the course record, that's awesome. And if I'm feeling good, and the weather is allowing me to do that, my body's allowing me to do that. Yeah, go for it. But also be comfortable with the fact that you're not, that's not going to be the case on all, on all races. It's just it's not to your point, you had to walk a mile on a marathon, which is, you know, because your body was shutting down, but you know, just accept what it is. I think I would you agree with that? I think,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 55:41

yeah, I think you put way better than I do.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 55:44

Okay. Let me write that down.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 55:48

But yeah, I would go back and listen to them and just hang on to that. But yeah, it's, you know, it's important to me to the journey and, and have night, like I said, I do have those little goals in the back end, but very rarely say them prior to an event. And I've been accused of, you know, hiding things and cherry picking and not saying what thinking and you know, all kinds of things because I won't come out and say, I'm going for a course record or I'm going for a win. Because it's I just don't feel comfortable putting that out. Sure. Even though it's in here.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 56:34

Is there a mantra that you have when you're in the middle of these things? Is there something like you tell yourself?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 56:40

Not really. Um, I just, I suppose it's probably different every time if I'm really struggling with something. I just try to pick up my spirits somehow. At Vol State in 2019. When Alan and I were going through the night and starting to drag and not what we needed to do, we came up with a walking with purpose songs. Yeah, I don't, I'm starting to just kind of slog along, I'll bring that up, and I'll start singing the walking with purpose songs. Things like that. And then, you know, for something for something where I'm trying to hold a piece, like doing a marathon or half marathon or whatever, the thing that I always pull up is that a line from Born to Run the book Born to Run, where he said, run light, fast, will follow. So I try to bring that up. And you can, when you start struggling and you're starting to run heavy, you can feel a very different feeling in your run. Yeah. And I find that if I can get myself back up and start running light again, and you know, everything back up, pull it all together, you do pick up your pace fairly quickly. So sort of a product that I use on more road based events is just run light.

Tom Regal: 58:12

Yeah, run light. I think that's a great one. That's good. ice cold beer is another one. I like to like to throw on my ice cold beers. Coming ice cold beers coming.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 58:20

There you go.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 58:21

corndogs the thing like I can't wait for next corndog like, Oh, yeah, eight miles, I get a sweet, sweet corndog..... Nobody looks forward to a corn dog I don't think.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 58:32

I was surprised at how good it tasted. I haven't had a real weiner in probably 10 years. And it tasted so good. It's and you know, it's a hot dog. It's half digested already for you. So this went down and the system used it. Ready to go? Yeah, I

Kenny Bailey<br>: 58:52

did a double century and I remember, I think 140 miles into that bike ride. Someone handed his cup of noodles. And it was absolutely. I'm looking around at strangers going. Have you tried the cup of noodles? These are fantastic. Try things. I mean, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't eat that on a bet in a normal circumstances. And suddenly I'm just like, oh my gosh. Yeah. The saltiness of the broth. Yeah. The sublime taste. You know, it's just like so funny how it's not a bagel in a banana. And, you know, it's like, you know, almost so yeah,

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 59:24

and cup of noodles and great. I

Tom Regal: 59:26

mean, those are fantastic.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 59:28

Best salt hit you could possibly get.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 59:30

exactly

Tom Regal: 59:30

so much salt. Fantastic. The first Iron Man I didn't at Lake Placid. When they broke out the broth. The beef broth was like it was most amazing. And I talked to someone else was like, I didn't get beef broth and I was like, Well, I'm a lot slower than you. You just have to be out there a lot longer. And it starts cooling off in the evening. They break out the broth, right?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 59:52

Yeah, I remember the first time I ran Western States when I got to greengate, It was dark it was Night, and they had broken out with potato soup.

Tom Regal: 1:00:04

Sounds amazing.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 1:00:05

I gave me this potato. And they asked, Do you want some potato soup inside? Really? Yeah. And they handed me this cup of potato soup. And it's like, oh my gosh, this is the most amazing thing I've ever tasted. Can I have more salt?

Tom Regal: 1:00:20

Where's the salt shaker? That just gives you that kick.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:00:26

Wll on that note. Thank you very much for joining us today. This has been a fun conversation.

Tom Regal: 1:00:32

Yeah, it's a pleasure. Really, really thank you for coming on.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 1:00:36

Well, thank you for having me. It's been fun. I hope the the cutting out of my computer didn't destroy anything. But no,

Tom Regal: 1:00:44

that's fine. That's fine. We'll have a transcript as well. We'll have a transcript out, this will be out. This will be out hopefully, it'll come out on our YouTube channel If I can get that finished. And it also be out audio wise. So I want to thank everyone for listening. Give us your comments, your thoughts, your feedback. any of that five stars would be a great review. I think we're doing a good job, I came out pretty good. And that helps the algorithms that helps more people find it and the podcast has been growing. We've got some international folks that are listening, which is cool. So as we're as we're having fun and learning and doing this thing, we really appreciate everybody for chiming in. So it's fantastic, Bev, thank you so much. I look forward to next year you can do Vol State gain?

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 1:01:32

I'm, I'm in the heart of the south

Tom Regal: 1:01:35

Hear of the South. The next the next Vol State, I'll keep an eye out because I'll come out and cheer you on. And of course someplace where as you come through our state. I'm really enjoying being out here in Tennessee and finding all the cool fun things that people do. So we look forward to following you and best of luck in all your races. And maybe we'll have you back on again. You can tell us more war stories.

Beverly Anderson Abbs: 1:01:57

Very cool. Thank you. It was fun. Thank you.