Athletes in Motion

Athletes in Motion Podcast - EP 026 Dr. Tim White

August 26, 2022 Tom Regal and Kenny Bailey Season 2 Episode 26
Athletes in Motion Podcast - EP 026 Dr. Tim White
Athletes in Motion
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Athletes in Motion
Athletes in Motion Podcast - EP 026 Dr. Tim White
Aug 26, 2022 Season 2 Episode 26
Tom Regal and Kenny Bailey

Being comfortable with being uncomfortable. 

It’s a term we use about our physical selves.  But what about our mental selves?

Sports Psychologist, Dr Tim White helps us better understand how mental state plays a crucial role in performance.  From imposter syndrome, to questions about being good enough, to the “yips”, our mind can dictate how our body reacts. 

A fascinating discussion on how we need to consider recognizing and embracing those things that may make us feel, well, uncomfortable.

Tim.White@WhiteHouseAthletics.com | 734-731-4972

WhiteHouseAthletics.com

This episode is sponsored by Oofos Recovery Footwear!
Shop and get your pair today: https://www.oofos.com/#therecoverylounge

https://www.tritomrendurance.com/
https://therecoverylounge.co/

On the Web:
www.athletesinmotionpodcast.com

On YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@AthletesinMotionPodcast

Episodes Sponsored by:
TriTomR Endurance LLC
www.tritomrendurance.com

Show Notes Transcript

Being comfortable with being uncomfortable. 

It’s a term we use about our physical selves.  But what about our mental selves?

Sports Psychologist, Dr Tim White helps us better understand how mental state plays a crucial role in performance.  From imposter syndrome, to questions about being good enough, to the “yips”, our mind can dictate how our body reacts. 

A fascinating discussion on how we need to consider recognizing and embracing those things that may make us feel, well, uncomfortable.

Tim.White@WhiteHouseAthletics.com | 734-731-4972

WhiteHouseAthletics.com

This episode is sponsored by Oofos Recovery Footwear!
Shop and get your pair today: https://www.oofos.com/#therecoverylounge

https://www.tritomrendurance.com/
https://therecoverylounge.co/

On the Web:
www.athletesinmotionpodcast.com

On YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@AthletesinMotionPodcast

Episodes Sponsored by:
TriTomR Endurance LLC
www.tritomrendurance.com

Tom Regal:

Kenny, this episode of athletes in motion is brought to you by OOFOS recovery shoes.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah, the demand we put on our feet and ankles is tremendous, especially after a long day or an intense workout. This translates into fatigue, muscle tightness, pain and soreness.

Tom Regal:

And this is where OOFOS shines. I mean made with proprietary Ooh foam technology. OOFOS absorbs 37% more impact than traditional foam footwear materials for the perfect blend of cushioning and stability. And

Kenny Bailey<br>:

OOFOS reduces energy exertion in the ankles by up to 47% compared to the competitors footwear, so walking is easier. Recovery is faster, and you actually feel better.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, athletes like pro triathlete Matt Russell, and NFL comeback Player of the Year Alex Smith rely on OOFOS for their daily recovery. Simply put, OOFOS are the go to shoe for your recovery needs.

Narrator:

Welcome to the athletes in motion podcast from race to recovery. With your hosts Tom regal and Kenny Bailey.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Hey, Tom, how are you?

Tom Regal:

I'm fantastic. Kenny, how are you today?

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I am fantastic. Thank you for asking. We have Dr. Tim White with us today from White House Athletics.

Tim White:

Correct.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Gosh, I got it. Right.

Tim White:

Thank you.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Welcome. We're excited to talk to you today because we've we've our previous podcasts, we've had lots of like athletes on we've had coaches on we've never had anybody that specifically looks at the psychology of sport. So super excited about talking to you about that, because I think it's becoming obvious over the last two years. I think Simone Biles in the Olympics is I think the you know, the the example everyone holds up about, hey, it doesn't matter how fit you are doesn't matter how good you are. If your mind is not there, you're that's it, you're done even at the highest level, and that someone at that level has a problem. You know, then we this is something we should talk about. So we're really excited to have you on. Before we get into that topic. Let's talk a little bit about you. So you've got about seven different titles.

Tom Regal:

Quite the impressive CV! Yeah. So

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Give us a little background on sort of why sports psychology how you started getting into sort of that field specifically.

Tim White:

Yeah, so my career actually started in sports medicine, I was an athletic trainer for several years. And after completing my original athletic training degrees, I worked for a year. And then I went back and got my master's in sports psychology. And that's where I really kind of got started in this whole path that takes me to where I am today. And during that time, I was working with an athlete who was recovering from an ACL injury. And we started playing around with some of the mental skills and strategies that I was learning in my classes, you know, how can we use a mental imagery technique to help you, you know, maximize the quality of your muscle contractions, as we're doing your rehab exercises? How can we use a relaxation technique to help you relax, as I'm helping you stretch and go through some of the recovery activities or even pain management? How can we use some of these different techniques and strategies to help you with that aspect of your pain experience, because pain isn't just a physical thing, it's actually a very much a psychological experience. Sure. And so through this process, it turned out to be a really brilliant, you know, kind of by mistake, honestly, just trial and error, where we really figured out, hey, there's a lot of value and benefit here. And so I took that experience into the athletic training portion of my career, which was about 1012 years, and ultimately reached a point where I said, I want to go back and do this 100% full time, I want to work on the mental side of sports and performance. And I knew that in order to stay in the college and professional environment, I was going to need more of a clinical mental health background. So I went back and that's where I did my PhD and kind of balanced out my my education and training so that I can address not only sports performance, but also mental health. And that ultimately led me to where I am today, working in a private practice building up a business and, you know, training elite level athletes, mentally, but also helping them address their mental health.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

So, help so for the layperson, what does sports psychology consist of? Like, like you said, it's pain management, but it's other things. So when you look at the scope of what you try to provide, you know, you're at that dinner party, somebody says, hey, what do you do? You know, what do you really say?

Tim White:

Yeah, you know, I think of with sports psychology, I tend to think about performance. So think of high expectations, pressure, stress, dealing with coaches, you know, having to perform when it's time to perform, that's where the mental side of performance comes into play. So being able to stay focused on what you need to stay focused on or concentrate, when you've got a million other things around you, including fans and parents and coaches all screaming and yelling to do this and do that. I got little kids and literally it's nuts. Yeah. Let alone college. Yeah. And professional where you got 50,000 People in this dance? Yeah. It's so sports psychology tends to be very performance oriented. Lately, it has definitely taken a turn to be much more mental health focused, given the anxieties, and even people, you know, Dak Prescott, talking about depression. Sure. Other athletes like that, where you know, mental health, these are still human beings, whether they are NFL, you know, 40 $50 million a year quarterback, or they're, you know, a high school athlete who just wants to have some fun. You know, they're still human beings that absolutely experienced the same stresses and anxieties and worries that you and I do and

Kenny Bailey<br>:

well, even more so. Right. Because they're, I mean, yeah, I perform well or don't perform well, at my job. It's not that big of a deal. Right? Obviously, my family. Yeah, it's not like, agents, you know, yeah. Sponsors, to your point fans that are on you know, on social media telling you how much of a you know, how much of a jerk you are that kind of thing. Right, right. When, when an athlete comes to you, what would be your range of athletes is high school athletes to professional athletes, or what do you?

Tim White:

Yeah, high school college, all the way up to people who have competed in the Olympics, and even some professional athletes as well. So I'm, I'm trying to focus a little bit more on the elite level athletes. But, you know, interestingly, I get a fair amount, a fair amount of, you know, high scores, and interestingly, even a couple of middle scores.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Now, why is that? You think? Is it because the pressures are becoming more?

Tim White:

I think, so I think the way sport has kind of changed and, you know, just listening to some of these people talk of the way that they're having tryouts, you know, 910 months in advance of the actual season, or Yeah, and the way honestly, youth sport has kind of become professionalized.

Tom Regal:

It's their development starts super super. It's, it's crazy. Yeah.

Tim White:

So you know, the, the expectations that are on a kid. Yep. And as my kids get into sports, it's really interesting to watch and see the different coaching styles. And how much are certain coaches actually teaching? And helping a child learn how to play and how much is the coach just worried about what's on the scoreboard? And it's really interesting to see that when you're talking about 6789 10 year old kids, it becomes a little bit of a challenge for me to be totally honest. Because I, knowing what I know, I can like, watch and look, and

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I have a coach. That's an interesting, sort of like, I was wondering, like, when PTS watch people run wrong. Yeah, like internally scream when they see that, like, please don't run that way. Or you're gonna come see me

Tom Regal:

joke about meeting a psychologist at at a party or something like that. Are you judging me? Yeah, totally. Totally put you in the bucket. You're there. Right. So we've done that already. Yeah. So.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

So when it comes to? When did they come? See you? I mean, clearly, they're not coming in when they're feeling great, right? I mean, wait, when do you see sort of? Yeah. When did they start knocking on your door? At what point? Is it? Like? Did they have a trigger event? Or is it something where it just becomes overwhelming? Or? Or how is that

Tim White:

it's a pretty broad spectrum, it's kind of across the board, maybe it's a drop in performance, or maybe it's a dip in there kind of general mood and demeanor. Other athletes, you know, some of them are a little more proactive. But oftentimes, it's connected to you know, I get into some sort of downward spiral, I make a mistake, and I can't get out of my head. And I make another mistake. And now I'm worried about that. And I'm worried about that. And, you know, three, four points later, they're still thinking about the error they made sure five minutes ago, or whatever the case may be. Yeah. So it's usually overtime, they notice some sort of trend or pattern about how they play and how their mind contributes to their performance. And they're trying to figure out how can I either minimize some sort of challenge? Or how can I enhance my mental game so that I don't go down that downward spiral in the first place?

Tom Regal:

So take us back a little bit to your sport background right when you were a kid growing up, were you active into sports? What was your what was the path that kind of led you down this?

Tim White:

Yeah, yes, this

Tom Regal:

career path. How did you how did you start?

Tim White:

right I played pretty much everything I'm not a very big guy but you know, I did a couple years of football I played basketball figured out real quick that a five six guys that work in a you know, list. Ever not good outside gamers? Yeah, exactly. Mugsy Bogues, right, yeah. But by the time I hit high school, I was focused primarily on swimming and running. Okay. And that's how it gets me to a place where today I do a fair amount of triathlon training and racing and stuff. But the thing that was really interesting that really kind of started my journey down this path as as a kid, I would watch college football on a Saturday, and there'd be a team that's down 21, seven or something like that. 21 three, and they would come back and win. And that always fascinated me to that. How are you down by 1518 20 points, and you come back and win? Or on the flip side? How were you the team that's up by that much? And you you give up the yell? Yeah, yeah. So it just fascinated me. And then when I got into my own athletic career, as a high schooler, I was I was very mental athlete. When I was on I was on and when I wasn't, I wasn't, yeah. And I put a lot of pressure on myself very high expectations. Took me a while to realize that I wasn't always going to get a personal best time. Every single time I raced. I didn't like that. I liked achievement. I liked improvement. Yeah. So you know, if sports psychology would have been a little more prominent 20 years ago, I definitely could have benefited.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, yeah. So but you're dying

Kenny Bailey<br>:

to talk to Matt Ryan? Yeah, it

Tom Regal:

was super funny. Yeah, there's a pats fan. So we should remember that game.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Everybody remembers that game? Yeah. Yes. So help us through the process. So someone comes to see you what, what does that look like? So you know, first off, are there are there particular sports that you see more than other sports? Are there sports that tend other team oriented sports that that tend to come see you or their individual sports that which one has more of a mental kind of challenge, I guess?

Tim White:

Yeah, yeah. And I really is a pretty broad variety. I think in terms of any trends that I see, I think it's really just based on what's kind of most popular around here. I feel like soccer and baseball are really popular around the Nashville area. But you know, you go to you know, I was in Memphis previously, and I would see a fair amount of basketball athletes in that area, because it's just a little more popular there. You know, I grew up in Minnesota. So you know, any connections I have up there and you know, I'm connected to is, you know, hockey players or, you know, of course football is is big, pretty much anywhere you go. So I don't really see any, like one sport over the other.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

But there's a theme that goes through that whole thing, right? I mean, on most fronts, like I'm getting the yips Was that a good tournament?

Tim White:

Yeah, yeah. The UFC is like the layman's terms. Yeah. You know, that's the UFC is gonna call more in your baseball, golf. Yeah, type of sports. I've definitely worked with some athletes there. So it doesn't you know, it's interesting, because it doesn't happen a ton. But when it does, it can really kind of mess with somebody. Well,

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I think golf for example, so you got a golfer who's suddenly you know, three putts. And he doesn't know why he or she doesn't know why. How do you? How do you start? Is it sounds terrible? Do you start like back in the childhood? I mean, where does it you know, where do you generally start? How do you? How does that process look?

Tim White:

Well, that's, that's why I think it's really important to distinguish mental health from, you know, sports performance, there's a lot of overlap, there's a lot of overlap. But in a case, like something where we're talking about the yips here, that is often more performance oriented. And so what we're doing is we're breaking down the skill, and, and going back through and incorporating movement. That's one thing that I think I tried to do, and try and kind of, not necessarily, I mean, it sets me apart from other clinicians. But it's not, I don't do it. Because of that, I do it because that's what helps people is, you know, be very active in what we're doing. So we're not just sitting in a chair and talking for an hour, I will take that baseball player or that softball player and we'll go out on the field. And we will literally break down the process of throwing from third base to first base into the most basic concepts and help them rebuild the skill. They don't need to rebuild their ability to throw 90 feet, but they do need to rebuild their ability to trust that their body can do what it naturally knows how to do. And so by taking them through that sequence of gradually increasing the the kind of stress of the situation and helping their brain relearn that they can handle the stress of that situation. That's how you're going to overcome something like the Yips, trusting your body knows the motions and knows the technique to just let the mind turn off and let it go. Let the wiring happen. Exactly. You're getting back to the automaticity of the skill, as opposed to because what happens with the yips is somebody suddenly starts thinking about something that their body automatically knows how to do. I see. Yeah. So we're helping basically kind of turn the brain off and let them get back to that automatic method of gutter warming. Okay.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

It's sort of like what the TED last one, the famous one where he's like, be the butterfly. The butterfly doesn't remember anything, right? Like it's after sort of be the butterfly. It's a fascinating, I'm glad that you separated the two between mental health and sort of performance based, right. What percentage? Do you see people that are doing it dealing with mental health versus performance? And I know that you can't, may not be able to separate the two? Sure. But on your initial kind of assessment, when someone comes in saying, Hey, am I having a problem with this? Is it generally do they start with I'm having a problem performance? Or they generally say I'm having a problem with just the bigness of it all?

Tim White:

Yeah, I would say it's probably about 5050. Okay, and, you know, I get some people that contact me and just, they'll flat out lay out a story of depression or anxiety or, you know, OCD or something like that. And, and part of why they are pursuing me as a clinician is because of my sports background, you know, yes, I have depression, and I'm a football player, or I'm a basketball player, whatever sport they may play, and they, they appreciate the fact that I will understand their life and their experience. You know, on the other side of things, it is more of that performance piece where it's, you know, I get up to the plate, and I struggle with A, B, and C. And next thing I know, I'm back in the dugout instead of on first base. And so there's a lot of just diving into what is the concern? And how can I use the different training and background that I have to help them whether it's mental health, sports performance or something else?

Kenny Bailey<br>:

On the mental health side, I'm curious on this one, because I feel like if you look at triathletes, for example, right, we're all sort of experienced in that they by definition, they're probably type A personality people that tend to have some level of OCD. And to a certain degree, if you look at like Lionel Sanders, or or other people that have had a drug problem or an alcohol problem in the past, and now they just switch to, you know, this is their

Tom Regal:

choice, right or addicted. Over.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

There must be I think they're how you approach an athlete or how you approach that type of person that that is striving to do? Well, versus the average bear. You know, people just trying to get through life. I mean, these guys are trying to get through life too. But there's a Is there a particular way that you have to approach that knowing that this isn't just, hey, I'm trying to get mentally healthy, I have to be, again, continue to be a aggressive or assertive or I have to continue to lean in, I can't allow myself to take that edge off. How do you how do you walk that

Tim White:

line? Yeah, it's a very fine line to walk. And it can be challenging. There's definitely when we think about kind of, not only mental health, but even the mental side of performance, there's so much emphasis given to you know, mental toughness. Yes, exactly. Right. So the strong or anything like that. But if we zoom out a little bit, and we think about like fitness, it physically, I do a lot of comparisons between physical and mental. Physical Fitness isn't just cardiovascular, muscular strength, it also includes flexibility and mobility. And so I would, I often present the same concept psychologically, where yeah, there is that grit and in tenacity that somebody can have and develop. But there's also the ability to be psychologically flexible, and to adapt and adjust to the situation that you're facing. And recognize that although I'm in a uncomfortable situation, or something that isn't necessarily ideal, I can still make a decision about what I do next. Or and I can still take action in a way that fits with what I find meaningful and important in my life. And by providing them some of that adaptability and flexibility, it actually kind of supports that concept of kind of greater strength, and really helps them balance that aspect. So

Kenny Bailey<br>:

what are some examples of that? Is it is it Hey, it looks like it's going to be second place. Like if they're if they're triathlete as an example, right? To your point there, they have a physical thing. You said your calf hurt, right? I mean, it's one of those where they just have to go look, it's it's time to turn down they got it out. And it's it's time to kind of figure out what's the best I can do with the ability or with the, what I have in front of me is that is that that'd be a good example.

Tim White:

Yeah, because there can be a lot of, you know, if I don't win then it's kind of black and white of the winner nothing type of thing and And at the end of the day, you only have so much influence over where you place. Yeah. And if something like effort and, you know, dedication and things like that are important and meaningful to you, then you can consciously make that decision during the race where Yeah, I may not win. But I do value giving my best I do value, you know, striving for a certain time, or whatever the case might be, and I'm willing to still push my body forward in the name of getting the best time I can possibly get. Yeah. And that's where you know, like, think about your kick to the finish, you know, that last mile or so where you kind of push it a little bit further. And then of course, the sprint at the very die. Yeah. But those are like that moment where you're consciously embracing more discomfort. And I'm willing to engage in that discomfort in the name of exerting my best effort. Yeah. So that illustrates how much you it's clear.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

It's the photograph. Yeah.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, I think that's where, like we talked about Lionel Sanders is if he talks about that he's willing to hurt more than everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. He puts himself so deep. That he's, he's willing to push that through and get through that pain, right? To go harder than you. You think you can go as hard as him you can't because he will go harder.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Prefontaine right way back land, right? Prefontaine is like, yeah, you're gonna beat me. You know, but you're not gonna beat me. My was like, you know, I'm going to basically kill myself to be you're not gonna be able to go as high as that. I mean, that. You know, I think that's an outlier mentality at this point, right? I mean, oh, yeah. When you deal with like, I mean, I mean, we're talking about that. But I mean,

Tom Regal:

everyone has their limits, they're willing to go. And I think that's what I love about the sport of triathlon is that I always related to life, it's the it's the closest sport that mimics life, because you set a goal, you set your plans, you get a training plan, you start working towards it, and everything derails everything, including the race, when you get to the race, maybe you've got if you had everything worked perfect to the race and and the weather conditions, other people, whatever else just goes south, and then you have to adjust on the fly, you have to, you have to be able to make those decisions that like, okay, my calves hurting, I'm going through, okay, you have to assess, I can keep pushing through this thing to get the time that I want, or am I going to do long term damage, and I have another race coming on later on, that I'd rather focus on. So I'm gonna back off, you have to make all these decisions on the fly, you can't wait. Because clock is running, like the race is going on. And it's fabulous to kind of go through that. And I think endurance athletes really kind of, most of them deal with that probably a little bit better. But then when it does go off the rails form, it goes off the rails heart. Sure, yeah. You're right, because they're in that they're in that mode of constantly assessing and going deep right on that type of thing. And part

Tim White:

of the challenge there is, you know, I mentioned this idea of like, what do you value or find meaningful in your life. And oftentimes, people want to just kind of hyper focus on one specific thing. But as we think about the example you just gave, you're highlighting that, okay, there's multiple things that are important and meaningful. It's not just my effort. It's not just my time, it's not just my health in this moment, but my long term health and Okay, what about the next race? And what about the money I paid for that next race? And now, you know, I've just spit out half a dozen variables that are going to influence my decision to push or to back off. Yeah. And, and all of those things are still important to you. Yeah. But they just contribute differing levels. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I think the challenge however, when you look at like team sports, like baseball, especially we feel like at the collegiate level, so let's use as an example, sir, you've got the strength and conditioning coach, you got the head coach, you got the parents, you got the child themselves, you probably got a scholarship that's going on, when when you are, are in that mix? How much influence do you want? Or do you need? Or do you have to have an order? If the coach is saying one thing, which is detrimental to what the what the player is doing? How do you balance that? How do you how do you? Are you spending time with him to say how to deal with a difficult coach? Or what do you?

Tim White:

Yeah, we definitely do that. Yeah, we definitely spend time working through you know, teammates, coaches, the relationships they have and the dynamics that exist there. You know, a lot of it really tried to really kind of comes down to how can I help the athlete make their decision? I don't approach my work as Okay, I'm gonna throw a bunch of advice and tell you what to do and suggestions and so on is as much as you know, how can you gain a better understanding of not only the situation you're in, but what you find meaningful and valuable in your life. I put a lot of emphasis on that as you can tell, so that the person can ultimately make the Every decision I see that is is going to, you know, be the best fit for them. And, you know if that means having a hard conversation with a coach, okay, I'm going to help you learn how to approach that conversation got it? Same thing with teammates, or if it's, you know, where do I set my boundaries? And how do I hold those boundaries? And what am I will What discomfort Am I willing to embrace or endure in the name of holding a boundary? Because that boundary matches with something that I find important

Kenny Bailey<br>:

in your, in your experience has been, you know, we've talked to, like sports performance coaches and other coaches and talking about helicopter parents. Sure, right. Is it in your experience, more of an issue with you know, Dad was the D, one quarterback, and he was the star athlete, and, you know, now you have to rise to that occasion. And, you know, when they did it to, you know, you know, we had, you know, we would get, you know, we would get stingers and, and concussions, you know, that's just part of the game kind of stuff is are you dealing more with, with those student athletes dealing with parents? Or is it more with coaches? Or is it pretty equal? It seems like coaching has a lot more sensitive these days when it comes to Yeah, I think they're more tuned in I don't know about the, I guess I'm trying to ask about the parents, are they?

Tim White:

Yeah, you know, there's some parents that are incredibly supportive, and there's some that are definitely a major contributor to the problem. And, you know, on occasion, you know, there are some of those conversations where we need to sit down with mom and dad and, you know, help them recognize that you don't take a deep breath, your child is going to be okay. Yeah. You know, interestingly, usually goes over pretty okay, oh, that's

Kenny Bailey<br>:

really a third kind of independent third party. And you, you know, like, you kind of, yeah, this is a kid saying, Hey, get off my back.

Tim White:

Yeah, I think it's kind of the same way, you know, you know, like, when we have kids, and you know, the kids, you can tell them A, B, and C all day long, but then they don't listen to you. But then their teacher tells them the exact same thing, and they listen to the teacher. And it's like, well, what if

Tom Regal:

somebody else says the exact same thing? She's all over?

Kenny Bailey<br>:

It's gonna be fun when your kids get older. Because you like, I'm a sports psychologists really? Yeah. But he told me to hit it. Yeah.

Tom Regal:

I could see, it's probably opening up the communication channels, the kids don't know how to communicate with the parents, the parents don't know how to communicate with kids. I mean, it's just different levels of mental stability. So you would probably just need to figure out the best way to communicate between the two so they can get to the goal.

Tim White:

Yeah. I mean, I definitely spent some time kind of teaching communication skills, especially to, you know, younger athletes and helping them understand not only what are they experiencing inside their own mind or body, but then also how to communicate that. Yeah. It's interesting how much that can alleviate problems pretty quickly.

Tom Regal:

It seems like that should be something in school, we should like focus on a little bit more as like communication. Yeah. Like not communication as an immediate communication, but actually, like, yeah, feelings and expressions and stuff.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah, they're on our time. Just pencils these

Tim White:

days. Yeah, that's part of the problem with technology to be honest. Yeah. It's because of the way everything is just done through some sort of text. And yeah, it leaves out all of the facial expressions, the tone, the body language, all of the stuff we have.

Tom Regal:

Adding new emojis, I have one that is just tearing up now. A little bit willing not to use that more often.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Or use lol at the end, if

Tim White:

you notice how exclamation points have been used a lot more.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Putting me over Yeah. So we have a lot of folks that that aren't elite athletes that listen to this podcast? Sure. And, you know, like you said, you're sort of a weekend warrior yourself, right? You don't triathlon to doing that. So this is time to treat Kenny time. Yeah. No, I'm just going to use kind of some examples. I think you probably have some to Tom. But there's a there seems to be and I talked to people about two things. One of them is this sort of, there are times when I'm driving, like it's five o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in the morning, you're going to a race, and there's a fight or flight kind of thing that occurs. So let's talk about that. First. Is that normal? Is that what a lot of people deal with? It's one of those like, I can turn around right now just go back to bed and everything's cool. You know, it's really cold out, it's dark. The water is gonna be cold. Everything's gonna be you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I know when I like for example, before I show up to a triathlon, I think everybody looks like Lionel Sanders and then you get there you're like, oh, look, there's humans like you know six three and 6% body fat and you know weird mustache. How do you how do you what are general sort of, you know, for the layperson, what what can they do on that sort of fight or flight thing is it just Focus on the training. I mean, how do you generally handle it?

Tim White:

Yeah, there's a the fight or flight response is absolutely there, you know, the uncertainty of okay, what exactly is this going to look like. And this is where preparation can be really useful in the sense of, I think, just using triathlon as an example, there's a lot of athletes who, you know, maybe they show up a day or two before the race, and they never really see the course. Yeah. And so a, you know, understanding, you know, hotels and costs and all that kind of stuff. But you know, if you can get there and have enough time to actually get out on the, on the course a little bit, even if you're just driving it. But so at least you know, where you're headed. And you can get a general feel for, okay, this is the road conditions, this part of the run is maybe a little bit hilly, or whatever the case might be. And now you've taken away some of that uncertainty, which is going to drop that fight or flight response in terms of how strong it is in the first place. And then from there, the you know, knowing that it's still going to occur, this is where some of the, you know, that willingness to say, you know, what, I don't necessarily feel awesome right now. But I'm okay with that. Yeah, that is a really powerful mindset to have to take on something that makes you uncomfortable, and to be willing to be uncomfortable, it really kind of goes back to the even just the pain of racing. If we our ability to say, yes, my legs hurt right now, but I'm still gonna maintain my pace, we can do it in that context. Let's take the same concept and apply it to the concept of even starting. Well, I

Kenny Bailey<br>:

think that's really powerful. Because I think that's, that's kind of the thing, right? Which is we we, anybody that's training for anything, it doesn't matter what sport it is, you're told to, you know, you're going to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yes. Right. Physically, yes. But I think that that notion of, you know, it's okay to be nervous and scared, it's okay to be unsure. It's okay to do that. And to not just try to push those away, but to just embrace that and say, Hey, this is part of the process. This is part of the,

Tom Regal:

and I think you want a little bit of that. Yeah, want a little bit of that anxiety, because that's, that's Yeah, with the best description, but you want a little bit of that, because it's that unknown that fires you up, that's why you're doing it.

Tim White:

Well, what I tell people is that the anxiety or even the fight or flight response, like there's literally energy adrenaline flowing through your body, like, you know, so the, the concept that I share with a lot of people is that our emotions come with energy. And how do we use that energy? Is it something that we need to run away from? And holy crap, I can't deal with this because it's too anxiety provoking? Or is this something that can actually stimulate me? And help me move forward? You know, think about the last section of the race? Where, okay, yeah, there's someone who's maybe 10 or 15 feet behind me, and I'm not gonna let them pass me. Yeah, there's that anxiety of someone's behind me, and they may pass me, but I'm going to use the energy that comes with it, to force yourself to kind of, you know, for a baseball player that the, you know, the anxiety that comes with, you know, needing to get a hit or something like that, well, you're

Kenny Bailey<br>:

a pitcher, you got somebody on first. And third, yeah, you got to get to your point, you gotta trust the fact that you know, your curves gonna hit. Yeah.

Tom Regal:

And what is it with those players that like, are always the clutch players, like, they're almost not that good, unless it's a situation where it's a do or die? And somehow they come through with that, yeah. But when it's not that they just don't seem to have the energy to really focus and kind of go through that. So it's kind of it's kind of interesting to know why they need that. Yeah, in order to play their best. And if they don't have that they played good, but maybe not. That level. Yeah.

Tim White:

I mean, there's a lot to be said about how we perceive the situation. Some people love those moments, because it's an opportunity to them, a lot of people run into those pressure filled situations. And for them, it's, Oh, crap, if I fail, it means XYZ. Whereas for someone who thrives in those situations, it's much more of here's a chance to go shoot what I can do, here's an opportunity for me to perform. You know, it's that kind of story of this is what we dreamed of when we were little kids. Bottom of the ninth two outs, like I'm gonna go win the game. Yeah. And when you walk into that moment, with that sense of here's an opportunity to fulfill that dream. That's a completely different mindset, then don't strike out.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, yeah. Focusing on the opportunity than the positive. It's an opportunity. It's not a negative, right type of thing, right.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah. And I think it feeds onto itself, right. If you do it once and you're successful at it, then it starts feeling good. And the second one, you're successful at it, right?

Tom Regal:

I think you're you're, you're destined definition, your personal definition of failure comes into play with that too. What is failure? I mean, failure for us is like in triathlon, there's no paycheck. There's no strong So even if we had sponsors, like, it's like, if you don't perform your absolute best that day, it's like, Well, life goes on, right? We're good on a professional elite level, then there's a little bit more failure to it. Maybe let the team down, maybe, you know, it affects your paycheck or something along those lines. But ultimately, you know, as long as you're still alive, I think it's pretty good. Yeah, you're doing okay. Yeah.

Tim White:

And there's a lot to be said, of, you know, this fear of failure that people have, and this idea that, you know, failure is this absolutely terrible thing that must be avoided when we get into that idea, or that headspace where it must be avoided. You're building a whole nother problem? Oh, yeah. On top of the possibility of failure, and there's a lot to be said of, like, failure as absolutely possible. And, you know, in a sport, I'll just kind of go back to baseball, like it's actually probable,

Tom Regal:

yeah, you're gonna,

Kenny Bailey<br>:

you're gonna get more probable you're gonna Yeah, then

Tim White:

you're gonna to set us free three out of four times, you're gonna be going back to the dugout. And the more we're able to work with that reality. And and recognize, yes, it's not only possible, it's probable, and I'm willing to work with that. And still take on that challenge. Okay.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah. So the other one that that seems to come up and and this one came up to me as well. Well, it's same thing and I and I've said this on other podcasts, right? I signed up for an Ironman training didn't go well, all year, it was sort of like, need to get 3000 in the water. And I got, you know, 2000. I said all during race day, I can I can, I know I can do that. I literally had my wetsuit on at the beginning of the race. And I said, I can't I can't do this. And there was this giant impostor syndrome. Like I didn't earn my way into this race. Sure, right. I didn't do the training enough. It's going to be Yeah, I don't think I was ready for the pain that was going to come before me because the training was bad. It wasn't, Hey, I've done training, I know, it's going to be painful. I can lean into that. Right? Because, you know, I have confidence with that. There's this sort of imposter syndrome that is even at the elite level, I would assume that that happens as well. Is that something that that is also do you deal with? Yeah,

Tim White:

yeah. It's surprisingly more common than you would think. In what way? Most people experience it. Okay. Even even, I mean, maybe like your, your high schoolers and such where there's so many people competing, and, you know, like, Okay, I'm one of the top high school athletes, so I'm not as concerned about it. But when you get into college and, and professional and even Olympic level athletes in such a, that definitely comes up quite a bit, I can back when I was doing athletic training. And that first day where we would do physicals and you know, the freshmen would come in to that first year of training camp, and you could just see it and feel it and sense this, like, oh my gosh, I don't know if I am

Tom Regal:

senior, and they're looking to throw their freshman.

Tim White:

Yeah. Amazing thing about it was that you would see some of these freshmen come in, and to back to that idea of that anxiety. And that worry, some of them would, they would knock it out of the gym, you know, or out off the field or whatever sport it was, where the anxiety that they had about, Do I really belong here, fueled them, and the end, and a lot of ways they would outperform some of the upperclassmen and then once they kind of realized, okay, like, I can hold my own, and I actually do belong here, suddenly, you know, they would kind of come back to earth a little bit. Yeah. But, you know, the same thing at the pro level and our again, the Olympics, you know, because you're exactly, like you're saying, you know, you're looking around and you're saying okay, there was that guy oh, there's that guy. Yeah. And you've seen what they've done over the years. And, and we need to remind ourselves like, and that's still a human being, they're not a god. They're not, you know, like, yeah, okay, they're on a bit of a pedestal, but the pedestal maybe is here instead of up here.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah. Well, it seems like first year pro players like hockey, like you said, you dealt with hockey players. I mean, first year football players, they always say that the speed of the game, yeah, is completely different, right? Because you like, I'm sorry, but if you're, you know, SEC football, if you're like Alabama, for example, I mean, seven of those guys, eight of those guys are already NFL level players, right? And so they're the best in that region. I know, I'm probably pissing off Georgia fans. As an example, right, you get those elite folks that come in, and then you get to the pro level and you're slow compared to what these guys do. I mean, you're gonna have a few standouts. But do you see those people that I mean, those kind of people you also kind of see when when they go into, you know, first time into hockey and they see the actual speed of now I've got, you know, I'm 2021 Well, hockey's even younger than that, right? Yeah. And there's like 32 year old guys that are just like you said, you know, been at this for For 15 years plus and right, I mean, they do this in their sleep. Yeah. How does is it? Let me ask I guess the question I'm asking is we had, we had Stacey on here who's a sports performance coach, and he was telling us that you can tell that sort of half of percent elite athlete, and he's talking about it from a physical standpoint, like you can tell Yeah, right. Yeah, that these people are committed to it. And we were talking a little about, you know, parents and pressure. And, you know, how do you make sure to keep a kid balanced, that kind of deal? When people come see you? Do you know, like, this person doesn't have the mental fortitude to be able to do this? Or? I mean, can you tell that is that you can

Tim White:

tell where they are in the development of their mental skills? Okay. And I think that's a really important point to highlight is that, you know, a lot of times people walk into sports, and they think about mentally tough and things like that. And they think they assume that either you have it or you don't, yeah. What I Eve first of all, that's not true. A second way. It's, these are skills and strategies that we're developing the same way you develop your strengths, the same way you develop the professional, same way you develop your, you know, kick to the upper corner. Yep. Or your slapshot, or whatever your skill set may be, you're developing and training your mind to do the different things that we're trying to achieve, whether it's focusing on a specific element of the ball, or whether it's your ability to eliminate distractions, your ability to to elevate or bring down the level of energy, that and adrenaline that's flowing through your body. That's all stuff that you can literally, yeah, you know, modify and adjust

Tom Regal:

the mental strategy, and that is controlling your love. Yeah. Throttling.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

What is that what they mean by when they're slowing the game down? Is that?

Tim White:

Well, I think in that instance, what's happening is their ability to process information is getting better, okay. And so when you think about diagnosing a play as a defensive player, on a football field, or whatever, your ability to take in information, filter, what is important and what's not, and make a decision about what you are going to do next, based on that information. That's a mental process, that when they first get there, their mental process occurs at this speed. But as they settle in and get used to the game, what's happening is that their ability to process information is actually getting faster.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Sure. And then confidence gets better. Sure. Calm a little bit down a little bit,

Tim White:

you trusting your abilities and recognizing, you know, okay, I can do this. And it goes back to some of that impostor syndrome and, okay, yeah, I can handle my own.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Have you had an instance where you had to, like, tell one of your clients like, Hey,

Tim White:

you're not gonna make I have had that conversation? Don't quit your day job.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

What what was that? I mean, why have you not? Obviously not let detail but what was that like it? Was it just sort of like

Tim White:

it was there's more of a If anything, it's more of a you're not going to get to where you think you're going based on what you're currently doing. It wasn't so much a like you have zero ability.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

No, no. But there's like its ability to perform at a level

Tim White:

versus like where you are now and where you're trying to go. I know enough to know what needs to happen to get there. And what you're currently doing is insufficient. Some nice work. Yeah, we will resume. I've had to have that conversation. Oh, that's fast.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

So let's take it back to a macro level. I think there's a there's an interesting phenomenon that's occurring, right, we talked about before we got on is around, you know, Venus Williams, Simone Biles, you know, Tom Brady's talking about mental health people are talking McCullough. Schefren Yeah, what? I think we've assumed that everybody, you know, just watch track and field or you watch you know, swimming events. You just you think everybody's just robots at some point time, right? They go out, they perform what they do. You know, they don't when they're disappointed, but they you know, okay, well, I need to do better next time kind of deal. There is definitely what what was it that in your opinion over the last few years, I finally cracked the open that these are actual human beings that that know, we can't just walk out and smack a ball, you know, a tennis ball like we every time and it's perfect every time and if we fail, we're okay with that. Yeah. When did it become? It wasn't because of is it the societal thing that that really took it over the edge? Was it the internet that took it over the edge? What do you think? What do you think caused that to finally say, Hey, enough is enough?

Tim White:

I think there's a is there a book? Yeah, there really isn't. You know, one thing for sure. I think it's a combination of variables. I think there's definitely the way in which athletes are much more Howard these days, if you think about, you know, 4050 years ago, you before the age of free agency, you know, you were drafted to the team. And that's essentially where you played for your career. You know, so the ability to, you know, make decisions about where I want to play, and how much money am I going to demand and things of that nature, the it's essentially empowered athletes in a way that they didn't have many, many years ago. And I think that supports or facilitates some of their willingness to speak out about other issues, whether you know, during the, you know, 70s 60s 70s, whether it was race related issues, or even again, these days where that stuff has come up again, in a more prominent way, but then, you know, kind of mental health, I think there's just been much more of a, they've reached a point where they are willing to say enough is enough. And breaking down stigma, recognizing that, you know, mental health is part of the larger concept of health. And our willingness to start talking about it, and in certainly having higher profile athletes come out and talk about it

Tom Regal:

certainly helps you think that changing coaching styles, I mean, we're learning more about performance that's been changing the way coaches actually, coach, right? Instead of that just buck up and do it. I don't care if your legs broken, keep running type old school, scream, yell type, saying that now the coaching model has changed a little bit. And that's kind of your your, you're dialing more into the mental side of it. So maybe that's bringing a little bit more because coaching has to change. Yeah. And it's slowly changing. Unfortunately, on the lower levels, it's not changing fast enough. Sure. as I'm concerned, I don't have kids, but from the things that I hear and been reading through that that's, that's a huge Yeah, that's a huge thing. And maybe this is bringing that to the forefront. Yeah.

Tim White:

I mean, I think there's definitely an element of, you know, a lot of these coaches went through that old school stuff when they were kids. And they don't want to, they didn't like that they enjoy it, they didn't find it useful or valuable. So they want to provide a different experience. And that's certainly not everybody. There's, there's absolutely the people who well, this is what my coaches did. So that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. But there are enough people getting into coaching, who are, you know, conscious enough to adjust and use their style instead of just copying what they went through? Yeah. And the way you kind of bring up basically sports science, and the way that we're getting so technical with the ways in which we can advance training and maximize what the body is capable of doing, we're recognizing that the mental piece has to be considered as well. So that's definitely making a big impact, as well.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

So a couple, you know, a couple of takeaways for our audience, what would what would be kind of a couple of juicy nuggets when it comes to sort of like I said, weekend warriors, what would you recommend to those guys, those folks that are out there that are trying to, you know, push a little bit get better? We had a body builder that was in here a little while ago. I mean, he's trying, he's in his 40s pushing, you know, sure. That's a whole nother game, right? Man. Any kind of pearls of wisdom you want to throw out,

Tim White:

I mean, I'll go back to something we brought up earlier is you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I know it's a little bit of a cliche, but are the ways in which we can experience discomfort and be okay with that is really, really important. Not only in terms of sports performance, but I would even put that out there in terms of everyday life. I think COVID has really highlighted how scared we are of discomfort, it like it's

Tom Regal:

all about comfort, everything we sell on TV, everything you take a pill for it if it hurts, or if it's this take a pill for do this. Get a comfortable couch. Why don't you lay down? Why are you standing, you know, all of that goes to comfort?

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Can someone explain to me however, the most comfortable thing we did was hoard toilet paper? Yeah. Why? Why that? Right. Like of all the things to serve. When it gets down to it, I guess basic you know, Pavlov's, you know? Sure, sure. Sure. You know, food clothing, shelter toilet paper. Yeah. I don't know why, but

Tim White:

yeah, but I mean, it's just in there's nothing wrong with comfort. Yeah, but it's our obsession with comfort. Yep, yeah. And our unwillingness to experience discomfort. Like I said earlier like the that unwillingness to experience discomfort. We create our own problems. We magnet we it's like pouring gas on the fire. We take something that is, you know, essentially a candle sitting on the counter here. And next thing we know our mind is treating it like the kitchens on fire.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah. Well, I mean, we have the most obese society in the world, right? Because we like comfort and convenience and uncomfortable is not fun. So right now I'd rather do that, and yeah, it's ridiculous.

Tom Regal:

Sorry. So we talked a little bit about communication and stuff. So thing, one thing I think we're talking about the athletes and using triathlon, the longer course athletes and how we adjust on the fly and kind of going through, when you get the first time athletes, there's all in for their goal. Sometimes it's a one and done. So long quarter Ironman distance race, how did they? How can they deal with that a little bit better? Especially I see a lot like working with athletes that it becomes very stressful for the family because they become so narrow, focused on this one big goal. And it's a big goal. I mean, it's hard. Yeah. And to get to that point, what are ways that they can adjust? maybe open up the communication or open that up a little bit to see the effort that they're putting in, but also what their family has to go on? Is there techniques or things that they can run through in their head that like maybe they can see a bigger picture instead of zoning completely in on themselves? And their training? Yeah,

Tim White:

yeah. In you bring up a really good point, I think it goes back to when you make that decision to sign up and having a conversation with the people around you. And what is it going to take apt to train and be prepared to do something like an Iron Man and establishing a bit of a kind of system or plan where hey, if if we start kind of trickling down this path, where we're starting to have issues or trouble or whatever, I need you to help me be accountable. Yeah. And help me zoom back out. Yeah. Because the the zooming in, I think occurs over time. Sure. As you get closer and closer, it's that much more important, and I need to get this training session out. And yeah. You know, it's so to have somebody who can can kind of play out like, Hey, man, I need you to zoom out, or, yeah, you know, I need to, we need to remember that. A, B, C, and D are still priorities on top of swim bike run. Yeah. Yeah,

Tom Regal:

my first time. First time Ironman athletes, I tried to give them a roadmap where we see the progression, right, here's where you're racist, here's the week, and then I circle certain weeks that I go, this is when your family is going to hate you the most. Right? So you need to be aware of the fact that you're being kind of an ass. Yeah, right. And you're going to be hangry. And you're going to be tired, but you still need to give them their time. And I try to really work them through that only because I did that on my first you know, I've been doing this for almost 20 years. But I've only done like four Ironman distance races, the first one that I did I get it, I look back, and I went yeah, it was pretty pretty all about me. Right? You know, and it was like, because we're getting through the skull and any injuries. And so I kind of get that. And I get a lot of people that ask me now it's like, well, how did you? How did you deal with that? How does your wife deal with her? She's super, super supportive. And I think after that I got better at recognizing what she's doing and making sure that like she's home by herself on a weekend because I'm out doing a six hour bike ride. And then I come back destroyed. I just want to eat, and I just want to lay there, right? Why can't do that anymore, right? I come back, I eat more. And then as long as she's feeding me, we go wherever she wants to go. Wherever I'm just hanging on, I just go suck it up, because this is what you have to do in order to have that balance. So that's, I mean, always looking for tips and tricks that we can give the athletes to be more aware of the situation, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. In a social situation. Yeah.

Tim White:

And in a way, it kind of takes me back to that concept of what do I value and find it important? Now how important and meaningful was my marriage? How much do I value? The other person in my life wherever, you know, if you have children and things that you know, and so what am I willing to do? In the name of ensuring that they don't feel forgotten and left out? Yeah, while I go through this process

Kenny Bailey<br>:

it but it's been normalized though, too, right? Because everyone jokes about having an Ironman widow. I even saw a poster that was like, you know, if you're still married, and you haven't trained hard enough, yeah. Running jokes. Yeah. Those are the running jokes. And we sort of normalize that to the point, but you've got a very good point. I mean, you're, it's not the three hour bike ride that that gets you. I mean, my spouse is okay with a three hour bike ride. It's the two hours afterwards, I'm laying like a lump, trying to figure out how to get my legs to work. And then I want to take a nap and then I want to eat and then she's like, you want to take the dogs for a walk? I'm like, hell no.

Tim White:

That's the second half of your break.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

It was like 95 degrees out. I don't want to go out. Again. Like that's

Tom Regal:

something needs to be done fixing the kitchen. Yeah,

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I'm getting hold of a handyman service going on. I'm okay. I'm not too proud. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's a really good point is is even with elite athletes. I think there's a you know, we've have we see you know, I see kids coming in high school kids that would come in especially, we had a NYPA in here and there. We're talking top 10 in the nation athletes, right basketball kids 15 years old. It's not them that are coming into them. Their mom, the grandmother. It's a whole family. That's, that's supporting that. And maybe that goes back to that pressure thing. DRO it was here and he said the only two ways the guy has a city it was either you're gonna rap or you're gonna play football. And his dream was to get his mom a house and he didn't make the NFL. So,

Tom Regal:

and he said he couldn't rap.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

The problem was, he fundamentally felt disappointed. Like, I could not he failed his mom, he failed his mom. And that's, you know, that's terrible, right? I mean, yeah, I'm assuming that's the kind of pressure that you're dealing with. This isn't like I said, this isn't just your, you know, hey, I'm having a problem at work. It's like I've got my family spent the last 15 years doing nothing, but making sure I get propped up, right. I'm assuming that's a lot of pressure on certain people. How do you how do you what do you recommend when they try to handle that? I mean, do you just, again, go back to the you do what you can do? And that's the best you can do? Kind of do?

Tim White:

I? Well, there's a lot to be said about, you know, having people you can talk to especially one of the huge benefits to my position is I'm a neutral party. Yeah. And so having people that you can talk to and express and get all that off your chest. Yeah. And out of your head type of thing. You know, there's certainly going to be friends and maybe even some teammates and so on that can relate and understand. Yeah. But having that trusted person that having you know, if I need if I need to kind of piss and moan about my mom for a minute, yeah, you know, as much as I love her and want to buy her house, like I need to piss and moan about my mom for a minute. And know that it's not going to be something that turns into a whole nother Yeah, you know, issue. So there's, there's definitely a good amount of that,

Tom Regal:

like Peter Sagan, my everyone, I'm one of the most prolific cyclists out there, right? When When Peter goes to another team or something, it goes with Team Peter, his brother has to go to the team with him. He has two other trusted friends that ride professionally, and the group goes, so if he moves to another team, you have to accept all of them. Yeah. McCain. Right. So it's his people that that goes with him. He created team Peter, back when he was much, much younger. Yeah. And he's navigated like tremendous success, because he has that trusted groups are around them. Even the individual sports, I think are key to your group, surrounding yourself. And

Kenny Bailey<br>:

LeBron did the same thing. Right? Yeah, trusted people that he took with him, right. And now they're all they're all doing okay for themselves.

Tim White:

Hey, you know, as much as we as much as that benefits people there, it also kind of brings back the point of that psychological flexibility and recognizing, okay, there's more than one physical therapist in the world, there's more than one, you got to find the right one for you. Yeah, you can develop a, you know, a trusting in confidential relationship with all kinds of like, at some point in time, that relationship was not your person to go to? And lay it all out there. Yeah. Now, when you have those people, and you can bring them with you, and you can you have that luxury, of course. Yeah, I would, too. Yeah. But also recognizing that it's not make or break, you have opportunities to build new relationships to find new professionals to modify your support system and, and the network that's around you. You know, we don't always like to go back through that process.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, but you have to if if they can take it to a certain level, and you're, you're moving on to the next level, and they're holding you back, you have to be able to recognize that as well. Right. So that's your next team that moves up with you. Yeah. And you develop the relationships at at a higher level, right? You don't need to neglect the other ones. But you basically bring in a little more expertise that helps you right, on the next round.

Tim White:

I mean, it's kind of like how teams, you know, pull players in and out. Oh, yeah, you know, this, this player is going to help us be better in this aspect of the game. And sorry, we gotta let this guy go in order to accommodate.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

So don't question but are some of your clients coaches? And why not? Yeah, no, I mean, seriously, that's I mean, of all the people. I you know, yeah. I athletes are transactional to it. Right? So it's your college kids that come in and out every four years. It'd be fascinating to see if, like, that's one to talk to a coach with. That'd be somebody really? Yeah,

Tim White:

it's a space where I honestly, I think it's a little bit of an untapped area.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I only take 10% off the top. It's a modest fee.

Tim White:

And it's not even. It's not even necessarily, you know, oh, here's how you stay calm under pressure, although that would be very important. You know, if you call on a timeout when you're not when you don't need to, or we talked about clock management. Yep. And, you know, a sport like football or basketball or whatever. You know, they have pressure and expectations. So contracts, just like yeah, exactly. They have agents and everything. So it's absolutely an untapped market that has actually kind of crossed my mind a little bit. It's not But the other thing that I would say is kind of the consultation piece where, okay, maybe I'm not working with your entire team. But here are some things that you can do during transit during practice. Here's what here's how you can incorporate or reinforce the mental skills that these athletes are trying to develop while they're going through your practice session.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the corporate world, you know, you have these, you know, executive coaches, well, not just executive coaches, you have the skill assessments that you do, right? You do, like, you know, I'm red, green, yellow, or blue. I'm a square triangle.

Tom Regal:

I love them. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

I hate those. The only reason I hate them is because people like to put people into defined areas. And it's like, oh, no, see, you're being a square. Now. I'm like off. But I'm wondering, you know, like, from your perspective, it's not just your training the coach to be able to say, hey, look, you have to be the steady hand out there. And that you you're guiding the tone and tonality of what that team is going to be. If you blow up, they're going to blow up your calm in the middle of the storm. Yep, they're going to be calmer. However, they also dealing with 1113 30 different personalities. And how do I you know, it's the Phil Jackson thing, right? How do I write? How do I turn coaches into Phil Jackson is where you can figure out how to manage like, Okay, I know this one. I mean, that's, that's, that would be an interesting sort of tool to learn.

Tim White:

Yeah, it definitely goes back to communication styles definitely come up. But then there's also just kind of personality styles, right, and recognizing, you know, strengths and weaknesses probably isn't the best way to put it. But but you know, when Person A has personality, one, these are things that are going to trigger them, these are things that are going to stimulate them, these are things that you can do to help bring out some of that effort and that motivation. And that's, like, that's a big part of coaching that I think it's underestimated quite a bit is that element of motivation. And how do I get somebody to do something they don't want to do, especially when it hurts, and, and being able to recognize, okay, this is the type of athlete I'm working with. And here's how I can push them or pull them

Kenny Bailey<br>:

or what their motivation is, it could just be like you said, I have that one player that does want the ball. At the end. I have another player that doesn't want the ball. Yeah, but loves the process of doing that. Right. Yeah, I love the team management of it. Right? I'm the point guard, I really enjoy. You know, being that person. And then I'm going to throw it to the Jordan's younger world, or the LeBrons or the Cobis. Right. And we'll let them do the shot. But I'm going to make sure that you know that that's a that's a motivating thing, too. It's, yeah, you got like a lot. That's fascinating.

Tom Regal:

Yeah, that's awesome. That's pretty cool. So how do people get a hold of you? Where you want socials? Or what's your what's your website? We'll post all this stuff up as well. Right? Right, right.

Tim White:

Yeah. So my website is White House athletics.com. Email address is Tim dot white at White House athletics.com. Phone numbers and contact information or on the website, socials, we're on Facebook, we're building out and starting to we're actually in the process of redoing our website, the URL will stay the same, but with the new website will come additional social media and resources to talk to you on Tik Tok. I am not on

Tom Regal:

videos. No thank God.

Tim White:

Right. The other way, a lot of people actually find me is a website called Psychology Today. Oh, look at it. Yeah, that's a great resource. Whether you're an athlete or you know, otherwise, that's a space where people can go and find mental health professionals for whatever need they have. And you can filter by, you know, hey, I'm looking for a therapist who specializes in this type of therapy, or they specialize with this type of concern, or you know, of course, for me, it's athletics. So it's actually a pretty useful tool. And I do it, I do get a fair amount of people that find me that way.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

Okay. What if you were like, what types of people do you want to call you? Is it sports specific?

Tim White:

Most of my work is is with athletes, you know, higher end, yeah, high school athletes, college athletes, pros. You know, that that's my niche. I also spend a fair amount of time with injured athletes. Going back to the sports medicine portion of my career, I have a very unique understanding of the injury process, especially the mental side of recovering and the stress and the worry and frustration that an athlete goes through. Yeah,

Kenny Bailey<br>:

that's all. I think. Unfortunately, we didn't tap on that one. But yeah, that would be that's, that's, that's the big deal.

Tim White:

There is a there is absolutely a psychological component to recovering from an injury so that that is an area of expertise for me. You know, so but again, you you know, healthy or otherwise, you know, athletes is my space. Okay,

Tom Regal:

cool. Well, thank you so much for being on a lot. This is this was fantastic. Yeah, love to do it again. Uh, yeah, for sure. Maybe we'll maybe we'll do one specifically on injury, psychology. I mean, because we get a lot of injuries ourselves. Yeah. So really appreciate you being here. Thank you everyone for listening and watching. Give us some feedback, thumbs up five stars, whatever, whatever you feel necessary. And we love the feedback. So as we keep improving and moving on with us, so thank you, everyone. Thank you so much. Yeah. Tim Kenny, and we'll catch you on the next one.

Kenny Bailey<br>:

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Tom Regal:

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Kenny Bailey<br>:

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