Athletes in Motion Podcast - EP 028 JP Primm

Narrator: 0:10

Welcome to the athletes in motion podcast from race to recovery. With your hosts, Tom Regal, and Kenny Bailey.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 0:19

Hey, Tom, how are you?

Tom Regal: 0:30

I'm fantastic. Kenny, how are you today?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 0:32

I'm fantastic. Thank you for asking. We have JP Primm here.

Tom Regal: 0:36

Welcome.

JP Primm: 0:36

How are you all? Yes. Thanks for having me. And looking looking forward to having a good time.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 0:41

Yeah. So JP to read his accolades. And Palmere's would be, it's going to take forever but basically, let's let's just two parter former pro basketball player. Now ref for both the NBA and ACC. And when he's bored with that he has a youth basketball league that you Yep. And then just for fun, you're also happened to be a cat one road cyclist that is currently the Tennessee State Champion, right in crits. That's correct. And we'll talk about crits later for those people like What the hell's a credit. We'll get into that in a second. But primarily what we want to do is talk about sort of your, we haven't had a riff on yet. So it's gonna be an intriguing thing on sort of how you went from, from player to rep and, and kind of what that entails. So before we get down that path, was basketball, like when you grew up? Was that it? Was basketball your sport? Or were you did you just happen to

JP Primm: 1:36

Um, to be quite honest, you know, it was fall into it? obviously like, you know, comin g up as a kid, you know, we were playing everything I mean, with football and basketball and baseball. And, you know, as I grew older, and I played all three, all through middle school. Baseball, I stopped playing in high school my freshman year, but the main thing was is like, I wanted to do everything. And if it was baseball, and you asked me what my favorite sport was, it was baseball. And if it was football, you know, during football season, hey, what's your favorite sport? JP, it was football. I was a quarterback in football, and had some had some college offers to play to play college football. But you know, I was I was a type that was like, well, basketball is all I need is me. You know, it's it's kind of control my own destiny and you know, with being a quarterback it's like, why don't you receivers a third through, you know, through to and fields baseball, you know, I need somebody to pitch to me, I need you know, to do this, do that. But basketball was kind of I fell in love with it, you know, when when I was younger, but then as I got to high school, it was like, it was kind of me I control my own, you know, so that's kind of how I fell in love with it. And that part of you know, dependent on other people I struggle with. I struggle with it today. You know, as far as delegating this and delegating that with different things. But, you know, that was I was, you know, I like doing it myself. And you know, I kind of control how good or bad I wanted to be.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 3:05

So Where'd you grow up at?

JP Primm: 3:06

I grew up in Dickson, Tennessee. Okay, um, so not far from here. You know, right up the road. But um, we Yeah, so grew up there. And, you know, born and raised from there. And, you know, it was a really good community is growing like crazy. As you can imagine. Everything is blowing up now. And well, yeah, everything is kind of just going west. And so it's, it's getting kind of full there,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 3:26

too. So for high school, then were you playing all three sports in high school? Or did you have to focus when you started hitting high school? Yeah, no. So I like Bo Jackson the whole time.

JP Primm: 3:35

So yes, I played up all three sports, going into high school and then freshman year, because because it was weird. It was like, baseball freshman year, like during the summer, they wanted you to play summer ball baseball as well. Yeah, I was playing AAU travel ball. So I'm like, Well, I can't be at two places at one time. And that was a spot the AAU was a spot for, you know, you're gonna play against the best of the best. And that's what I wanted to do. You know, I was like, during baseball, I will play baseball. But it got to a point where it was like, if you didn't play summer baseball, then you were kind of getting pushed to the back when it was baseball season. You know, so I didn't really like that part. So, you know, I kind of gave that up. But a lot of people, a lot of my coaches were like, Yo, like, if I would have stuck with baseball, like they they don't, you know, would have been in. So

Kenny Bailey<br>: 4:23

where do you where you sounds like you've had a huge drive early. Was that from your parents? Was that just kind of internal drive? What what caused that? Like, you want to put it the best of the best? I mean, you sound like, Heck, middle school, you were, you know, highly competitive,

JP Primm: 4:37

right? Yeah. And I was and I think a lot of that came from, you know, came from my mother, you know, just seeing her, you know, working, you know, two jobs and the drive that she has is, you know, I think I got a lot of that from her. You know, and just that persistent of being, you know, like really wanting something and going after it. And that's where, you know, at a young age, it's like that's some then you either have or you don't, you know, and I had an older brother who was, you know, super talented, didn't work as hard as I did. But he was more talented than I was. And I had to work and work and work to be at the level that he was at. So and also, you know, that helped out to having a big brother to kind of knock you around. And

Kenny Bailey<br>: 5:22

when you have a mom working two jobs, and you're sitting on the couch, you're gonna get your ass to be doing stuff.

JP Primm: 5:29

It's always good to for me, you know, with my bigger brother having that and, you know, just, you know, that helped out a lot.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 5:36

Cool. So then you hit college. Basketball, right? And so when, where was that,

JP Primm: 5:41

so I went to school in UNC Asheville, North Carolina, and then, you know, had, I don't know, 10 to 12 division one offers coming out of high school. And, you know, it's just one of those things like college no matter where you go, you kind of got to make it the best place for you. And, you know, with, with UNC Asheville not being a, you know, Power Five, or you know, anything like that, like, that is one place. And I'll say that, I made it the best possible. Four years there were fantastic. If I could do it all over again, exact same way.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 6:14

You're playing guard, right? Is that your point? Known as the shooter slicer, well,

JP Primm: 6:20

a little bit of both. Yamanaka scored, you know, in college scored the crap out of it, but you know, also I was strong, I was greedy, just you know, defensively got after. But the main thing, my my main thing, what I brought to the table was just being a vocal leader, talking constantly and that I think that's a lot came from, you know, me being a quarterback as well,

Tom Regal: 6:39

I say same same personality traits or that same

JP Primm: 6:42

personality. You know, and my coach, he was like, you know, when I recruited you, it was intriguing to me that you were a quarterback, so I started young, but also like a sophomore in high school, like, you have to rally these 18 year old guys and 17 year old guys upperclassmen, that that are dependent on you to get those guys going. So he figured that out early, and you know, he was like, you know, bringing you in as a freshman, I knew that he wasn't going to have any problem leading us and know start as a freshman right away. And you know, the one two championships there my junior senior with you. Yeah, so it was good. It was, you know, went to the NCAA tournament. Nice. And that's just one experience that I wish every college basketball player can experience cut the net to teach cut. Yes. Cut. Flying private, you know. That was awesome. Yeah, it was, it was great. Alright, so

Kenny Bailey<br>: 7:37

you after college, you were getting Pro offers or how did them? What was it looking like? So

JP Primm: 7:43

I was with San Antonio with the Spurs when I first came out, did NBA Summer League with them. And then after that, I received my first contract in in France. I was in Nanterre. Nice. So that was completely awesome. Spent some time go ahead.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 7:57

Yeah, just how is how's category? European ball? Yeah, European

JP Primm: 8:01

football is totally different. Yes. And a lot of Americans that go over the game is totally different, like, people that come like guards and players that come from Europe, like everybody can shoot passenger will, no matter how big you are, no matter how you see that, okay, yeah, and it starts at a young age, you know, their development over there, they're a little bit ahead of us here. As far as you know, like, because if you're the biggest one on the team here, it's like, are we gonna put you in the post and you're just gonna run the rim and we're gonna throw you the ball inside and no, like, they're just like, they start handling the ball at a very young age. And it helps out, you know, you take a lot of the European even, like, so called bigs in the NBA, you know, their guards, they can handle the ball, they can all shoot it, they can all pass it, but the game is totally different, though. They're more focused on, you know, let's swing the ball. Let's create a mismatch, you know, where the, you know, ball over here is like, it's a lot of isolation. It's a lot of, you know, so the game is totally different. But it took me a little bit to adjust, like my first, my first season there. So we're doing preseason. And, you know, I come from where, you know, I'm the man basically in college, you know, it's like, I'm the guy they're looking for me to score. They're looking at me to make plays. They're looking at me to run the team. Well, they're, it's like, everyone can shoot passing dribbling score. Now we want to get you the ball with eight seconds, and we're like, Alright, now do something. Yeah, it's, you know, it's totally different. You know, so I struggled. I struggled a little bit because like I said, I was I was concentrating on things that I knew and they'd gotten there and you know, there was a bit of adjustment and you know, and like I said, the first month or two, I struggled but then once I kind of figured out kind of what they wanted I just did pretty good.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 9:50

Well, I mean, watching a seven foot guy shoot like an 18, 20 foot jumpers like consistently would be kind of like, are you supposed to be down below like just, you know, taking up space blocking That's hilarious. Yeah, absolutely. So is it a more physical game? Is it a less physical game in Europe? Is it like, I mean, I'm assuming give or take seems like a kind of guy that you're okay with

JP Primm: 10:09

like, yeah, and it's fine. I was fine with the physical part of it. There. I never struggled. But for the Americans that play over there, like you don't get as much love as the locals, you know, yeah, you'll take you'll take some beating, but it is physical depending on where you go. Like I was, I was in a summer I was playing in Dominican Republic and I'm probably the most physical league I've ever been in. Yeah, and I mean, just get after you and you know, referee, they let you play and it's in that part, like I was, I was like, Do this physical?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 10:41

Do you like that? More do you do? I mean, are you just adjusting all right game on,

JP Primm: 10:46

you can adjust and but you know, there are some, you know, where you go straight from European ball to like, physical, physical, physical playing, like you drive into the hole and you're like, Yo, I just got smacked around. That's a foul, you know, over there. You know, there used to and I like having all Poppy like, you know, that's a fine. But um, great experience, though. There. You know, is basketball has been good to me get into

Kenny Bailey<br>: 11:15

how so? How did you? How did reffing start kind of creeping itself up when when did that.

JP Primm: 11:22

So when I came back from Europe, so my stepdad is a big official my. So my, my brother, who was an official as well. So my stepdad. And Mom got married when I was a senior senior in high school. And his son, which is my brother, my stepbrother. He got into officiating as well. He was probably mid 20s. When he got into it. Well, we lost him to non smoking lung cancer that went on when he was 29. Wow. So he was on his way up, just got into division one basketball, and that following year, he he died from cancer. But long story short, that kind of fueled me whenever, whenever I was coming back from Europe, like always, in the season in the summer, I would always referee games just to kind of keep me around to kind of get back to the game. And so once I was once I kind of knew that I was changing gears with the, with the, with the plant side, because, you know, I started having kids, and, you know, they needed me there, they were at age now where they were starting school. And so it's time for me to change gears a little bit. And so I started with a coaching. You know, I was like, you know, that was good, I built a you program from the ground up and you know, became a really high powered, you know, travel team within the circuit. And after that I was like, you know, it was it started getting really stressful coaching. You don't imagine that? Yeah, and I'm a talker. So like, like, I mean, I was leaving the game with headaches, they just can't be healthy. And you know, I'm worried about what my guys are doing, you know, off the floor, and you know, then I got into the high school thing. And that was kind of the same thing. It's like, there's money in it. But obviously, you have to start at the bottom and you gotta climb your way up, which is I'm fine with. But I was like, you know, like, I had a couple of people's like, you know, you're really good at officiating. Like, you look good. You have the background for it. You played. This is what people want. This is what assignors won't. And I'm like, I don't know, like, I'm gonna coach another year just to kind of Long Story Short got into it. And like my first year, I did one year of high school, and just kind of learning kind of seeing plays and things like that. And then after that, I went to my first college camp, my second year officiating, and I got picked up Division one. And that was a year before COVID. And then yeah, so

Kenny Bailey<br>: 13:45

your timing is fantastic. It's almost like opening a store before

JP Primm: 13:50

you know, so and then now it's, yeah, it's taken completely off. And

Kenny Bailey<br>: 13:55

that's awesome. So now you're doing NBA games as well. Right?

JP Primm: 13:57

So I did NBA Summer League. This this. This summer, past summer was the first NBA now that I got to involve with that. That's cool. And yeah, so did NBA Summer League in Salt Lake and you talk about phenomenal experience. Yeah, yeah. So I got a phone call. It was probably I don't know, two weeks, two or three weeks before. And they were like, you know, we, we think that you're the guy and we want you to three weeks before the season, but summer before MBA someone we like, Hey,

Tom Regal: 14:27

what are you doing next week?

JP Primm: 14:29

College camps, I'm going to use college camps. And so how it works is you go to these college camps, you get seen by the assignors that you want to work for trying to get a job for and you go in and they basically give you like a three day and your refund basically like NBA high school games. And you get out there and they have numbers on you. So they see okay, do I like this guy? Do I not? And they basically see you best like a trial. Yeah, and you go and that's how you kind of get picked up.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 14:56

So is it. I guess the analogy would be sort of like a baseball bat. Great where you're doing. So if somebody wanted to officiate, they would start kind of at the high school level. Right, right. And then to your point, what are they called? The guys that are

JP Primm: 15:08

assigners.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 15:09

signers?

JP Primm: 15:10

Yes. A signers. Oh, that's

Kenny Bailey<br>: 15:12

an interesting term. Right? So are these games are Yes? Do they do they work as reps as well? Or are they they're all

JP Primm: 15:18

They're just got it off the floor, although

Kenny Bailey<br>: 15:19

they just sit there with a with a notepad and

JP Primm: 15:21

correct and then you also have these clinicians they're called clinician. So these clinicians are basically like, responsible. So they might have six clinicians that they have their account. So these clinicians sit at each, like each court, and they watch you. And they take notes as well. So each day, they go back to the their boss, which is the assignor. And they basically say, Okay, we like this guy, this guy, this guy, well, you need to come over here and watch him.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 15:50

So are the clinicians designed to look at how accurate you are on what you're doing that

JP Primm: 15:55

consistent, yes, consistent. How you look at your style, like really your startup part, really, I like your swagger, because every even at officiating, like, everyone kind of has a swagger, ya know what I mean? Like you're either smooth or you're really jumpy, or the

Tom Regal: 16:09

players need to respect you, and you need to have a swagger. I'm imagining to, you know, get that respect a little note, right. Like, you certainly have confidence in

JP Primm: 16:17

it. Correct. Right. And confidence is the main thing like, are you believable? Yeah. You know, can they approach you, you know, because I've had been in games where it's like, do like, I'm like, why are you coming to me about, you know, a call that was called by my partner, he was like, you know, because I feel like I can talk to you. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. So that right there. And I've been in games where, like I said, players come and talk to me. And I have that because of I played

Kenny Bailey<br>: 16:41

Yeah. So your respect levels higher, right. Because they know what,

JP Primm: 16:44

any, yeah. And even some of them that that don't know, my background, like I have, because I played so I know, the conversation needs to be had with the players. Yeah, you know, I can relate if players are frustrated, I can relate, you know, and I feel that yeah, and, you know, so I might bring them to the side and, you know, kind of talk to him and kind of talk about a play that they may think that, you know, it wasn't a foul versus it was a foul. So I'll conversate and talk to them about that, you know, and so next possession, it's like more of a respect thing. It's like, okay, he hears me, I hear him. Yeah, we respect it's a respect thing. Let's both move on and take it from there. No, you build that, you know, you build your credibility that way, not only with players, but with coaches.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 17:25

Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, we'll talk about the coach thing in a second. But I'm curious, like, when you first start officiating there, you have to have some sort of two things, you have to have a confidence level, like, Hey, that was, you know, some obvious vows or obvious vows, but there's gonna be some stuff where people are gonna come at you. Like, it could go one way or the other way. So what was that like that first time you had somebody in your face when it was like what I mean, a coach or a player? Like, how could you call that thing? Like, you're an idiot? I mean, was it

JP Primm: 17:52

and and like you said, there is a confidence thing. But the main thing like when, when you're at the high level, or even just a high level, but high school, I would like you have to find that fine line between the conversation and where it needs to like where you can take it because there are certain things that you can say that can take a coach from, like, going to the extreme, and just talk them completely down. You know, and a lot of that what what I have learned is, as an official, like, coaches don't want to hear you're right, you're right. You're right all the time. Right, as an official is like, you have to have enough in you to say, You know what, Coach, I think I missed that. Or I was wrong. Because perception wise, they want us to be so perfect. You know, and we're human. Yeah, absolutely. The main thing is admitting when you're wrong. Now, you can't say that the whole night. I missed it.

Tom Regal: 18:45

I missed that one. I missed that one. Yeah.

JP Primm: 18:52

Exactly. Like, let me get the whistle. You know, but so there's a there's a respect thing, but you know, at the end of the day, it's like some players that, you know, that come up to me they, you know, it's all you know, I didn't bail him there. I didn't, you know, I'm like, maybe I missed it. Maybe not, you know, or maybe you had a better angle on it than I did, you know, and but the thing comes, it's like, you know, what are what are your shooting percentages for the day? You know, and his other shooting? 50% I'm like, Listen, if my call percentage was 50%, I will be out of a job. Yeah. Like, you relate to him that way. Yeah. It brings him down a whole lot. You know, we're having a one one word, you know, conversations or sentences that you say to coaches that bring them from So figuring out that part? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, it is very interesting because like I say, like, some coaches are different from other coaches, you know, so what

Kenny Bailey<br>: 19:44

style would you call yourself? Like if you had I mean, did you develop a style Did you did you intentionally or did you fall into or do you have one sure you need one now? Should we get one right?

JP Primm: 19:58

So so I think about All right. So I think my

Kenny Bailey<br>: 20:02

Suave, Try it right on

JP Primm: 20:06

I think my swag is more of like, laid back in sometimes I get, I get kind of hit with being too laid back. Now I've kind of gotten better with it. It's like sometimes, you know, from perception wise, some people might think that I think the game is boring. But that's just my personality, because I'm super laid back. And I'm super chilled. And nothing really gets me like, from 90, you know, zero to 90. And I'm real calm at everything. But I've also had coaches and players say that they love that about me. Yeah. So that's kind of, you know, but there are ways and times in officiating that you need to go from zero to 100,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 20:49

you know, absolutely egregious, like foul or

JP Primm: 20:53

correct. But yeah, you have to match it. But then again, it's like, you don't want to be too high. You know what I mean? It's like, not too high, not too low. Let's just be even keel. And some referees would totally disagree with me on that. But I've had a sign. As I say, We love that about you, I've had a sign as I say, we need you to be a little bit more, you know, have a little bit more urgency or have a little bit more, because my movements are smooth. You know, so I think, you know, so to answer your question, I'm, I'm kind of a smooth guy, you know, kind of take people down, you know, and talk and really communicate with players and

Tom Regal: 21:29

coaches. So you know, you look at the game differently now that you're reffing is it? Is it there? Is there a different nuance to the game that you pick up on now that you kind of do I mean, you came at it from a player show that end of it? Sure. What is it that that you look at now that you see a little bit like it's a bigger picture is

JP Primm: 21:46

no absolutely that in the game as the game is faster is crazy, because so NBA, NBA Summer League this past year, it was there was an NBA it was a commentator played in the league. And he said, I want to try fishing for a day. And they put him in a game Richard Jefferson, they put him in a game, and he never officiated a day in his life. Yeah. And he's just want to see because he's a commentator, he said, You know, it's good for me to see what y'all go through. When they put him in a game in his eyes word. Yeah, so they interviewed him after he said, This is the hardest job ever. Yeah. And he respected the officials more, you know, now that he's ever have. And so to answer your question, like when I came from plan, the hardest part for me was not just watching the game, because you have to watch certain areas and certain plays, but now it's, I'm hip to, you know, things that players are doing, because I used to do, you know, little small things like holding people on the screens and like small little things that if you're not paying attention they could get away with Yeah, you know, so that kind of puts me one up at that level. But calling the game from an official standpoint versus a player standpoint. Yeah, that was my hardest thing, because there will be plays where it's like, that's a foul. He got bumped a little bit. Oh, I need to call that. I'm not a spectator. Exactly. Yeah. So you know, that was my biggest, you know, my biggest leap, was trying to referee it from a official standpoint versus a player's Damn,

Tom Regal: 23:29

yeah. Nice.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 23:31

So let's break down sort of, I kind of know what I don't. Right. So how many total officials are on the court at one time? What's what each role is? Like? Yeah, go.

JP Primm: 23:42

So you have Yeah, so there's three officials, you basically have like a crew chief, which is the main guy who usually is going over pregame stuff, who's usually the vet on the crew. Yeah, the more experienced one on the crew. And he is usually the one tossing the ball up. So you know, right there, who's the main referee, who coaches are going to go to probably the most, you know, especially in a bigger game, but then you have your basically you're so you have your crewchief or your your AR, you know, and then, you know, then then everyone falls up under that. And basically, you have a referee, you know, and you have a u one, u two. So an NBA is different from college, they just call them different things, but there's still three officials. Yes. Same concept. So

Kenny Bailey<br>: 24:33

are you devoted to one side of the court then as a you one or

JP Primm: 24:36

no, so everyone kind of so you start off in like the triangle there. So you have like a trail, you know, is basically on top of the court and then you have a lead which is basically the one on the baseline on the basket, they're usually on the same side. And then you have your slot which is on a single side across the court, splitting them to so everyone is responsible for a third cut. And if you're Watching the basketball every time then you can't officiate your third of the court. So it's kind of hard because at the beginning when I started officiating, I was always watching the ball because as a player and a spectator, that's what you do you just follow the basketball. Well, when you officiate, you cannot follow the basketball. That's like the number one corner rule you're watching. Over here, exactly, so right here, so you're watching, you know, so you're watching screening actions, you're watching, you know, Jersey grabs the whole nine. So the person at the bottom, the lead official, they dictate the rotation. So if the ball is on the opposite side of them, you know, then they need to go to the strong side where the ball is at. Okay, so then if they're rotating over to the slot side, that's the single side, then he comes up and then now yes, so it's like a yo yo exam.

Tom Regal: 25:51

That's that triangle keeps rotating. Exactly. Yeah. Interesting.

JP Primm: 25:55

So it's cool when you rotate. Now, your third switches. Yeah, now you're looking at a different third.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 26:00

So you may be under the basket at that point in trying to figure out, you know, rebound issues and everything.

JP Primm: 26:04

Yeah, holding screening actions. If there's block charge, plays, plays going down the lane, you got to be able to pick up defenders. So yeah, so it's a it's an interesting gig. And I think that that part drives me, because you always want that perfect game. Sure. But it never comes. Yeah. And it's the same as racing. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. You want that perfect race and never come never exalt and the

Kenny Bailey<br>: 26:29

intensity. I mean, exactly. I mean, you are like you said, you're, I mean, it's pretty intense, especially you're fast breaks and things are going on, and then all sudden you're underneath, like you rotate on the third. Yeah, you're looking at like four big bodies underneath trying to you know, absolutely

JP Primm: 26:40

trying to pick up some guys cutting down the lane screen. And you know, and you're driving down and you know, you're in a building with, you know, with 10,000. And you make a call house is coming. Maybe the right call, but you know, you got to make that call. Yeah. And how do you handle that, you know, that you hear the crowd coming down on you. It's like, you can't let that affect your next play. Because if you go into we call it going in a tank, so if you if you, you know, you let that affect you now, it may affect your next second and third whistle. You know, now you have a snowball effect. Yeah, or it's a foul and you're like, but what the last one may not have been a foul is this one going, you know what I mean? So it's a it's a fine line, but the really good ones they hit that reset button because we are we're gonna have those ones that maybe could have went either way or, you know, we just had a bad angle on it. Yeah. But you know, the great ones, they push that reset button and they move to the next play and that's what helps me is because I played it and I have to experienced as a point guard. Yeah, I'll turn the ball over. Okay, get back on defense. I can't let happen again. So move into the next play constantly. And that's what really helps me out to on the fishing side. Nice.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 27:51

So you're coaching your ref in the NBA? ACC right. So which house is kind of like the one you like when you Is there a particular college you get to you're like, oh, man, these guys are gonna be like obnoxious is there. Well,

JP Primm: 28:05

actually, this will be going into my first year in the ACC okay. But

Kenny Bailey<br>: 28:10

are you looking forward to goodness? Ah.

JP Primm: 28:14

So I played and I played in almost every school in the ACC either played against them. Yeah, had tournaments there. You know, the rowdier ones and others. Oh my goodness. Do Carolina. Like I played I played both of those spots. NC State, Clemson.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 28:34

So all of it. Yeah. Pretty much all of it. Yeah. It's just get out loud. Right?

JP Primm: 28:37

I mean, goodness is.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 28:38

So how does it compare to like, like you said, summer league in the NBA. I mean, it's so Summer League, and you got the whole

JP Primm: 28:43

year so summer league in the NBA. The crowds are really good. But college basketball during the year is bananas.

Tom Regal: 28:52

Yeah. And it doesn't matter what game it does. Every every game is crazy

JP Primm: 28:57

is going to be bonkers. So, you know, the atmosphere is a whole nother level. Yeah, it's crazy. You have to deal with fans. You got to deal with coaches. Yeah. But like that part excites me. Yeah, you know, that part is like, you know, when the game is on the line and you know, games tied up and there's five seconds to go or 10 seconds to go and it's you know, like, I want that play. I want to be able to make that call. I want to be able to where some officials like I'm not calling that I want the action today I area but yeah, you know, like, I don't know. And I think that that comes with you know, wanting the ball with 10 seconds. I want to rock I want to be that guy. Yeah, I miss

Kenny Bailey<br>: 29:42

it. So what? So how do you tune out? You know, you've got 20,000 kids that are screaming their brains out. You got a band, it's gone like crazy, right? You call a play on their marquee player. How does that I mean, do you just do not look I mean I mean, how do you I mean, do you just have to tune out the noise? I mean, is that the thing? Is it like your mind days when people hear you when you get up? It is

JP Primm: 30:07

100%. It's like when you're on the road, and the game is going bananas, and you're going back and forth. And you know, the thing is, well, we used to tell ourselves when we're on the road is we want to silence the crowd. So the quieter it is acquire is the better, you know, and that's kind of the same. That's kind of the same with officiating because if you can leave out of a game and they don't know names, they don't know. You know, then you've done a good job. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 30:34

If you're not on Twitter, go on that guy. Yeah, show correct

JP Primm: 30:37

picture view on Twitter. To run your car story on ESPN. Yeah. You know, so it's, but you know, it's, it's awesome thing, man. It is like coming from plan to officiating, like, I needed. I needed that. I never thought I'd get the same excitement as planned. Yeah. And like the officiating thing, like it feels like I'm playing all over again, with the travel with the interaction with players and coaches, and I have the next best seat other than

Tom Regal: 31:06

you have to still have to keep your fitness. Running. You're running just as much

JP Primm: 31:10

1000

Tom Regal: 31:11

You don't get the sit out.

JP Primm: 31:12

1,000% officiating thing. I'm gonna take a breather right now. Okay, so you know, so it's like, you know, it's like, like I said, the plan part. I never thought I get the same excitement. But dude, it's so

Kenny Bailey<br>: 31:29

when you just find it fascinating. Because the Do you feel like you need like, Are there times when you you gotta let the game play, even though they're being more physical than normally or something you would call? When you look at it, you go, Hey, man, they're playing physical, but they're not. They're not playing. Yeah, right.

JP Primm: 31:50

I mean, yeah, so we call that marginal contact and stuff. So like, the first five to seven minutes, we like to, you know, say let them sweat. So the first five or seven minutes is gonna really kind of dictate how the game is gonna go. The physical the physicality part is like, are they playing physical? Or is it illegal contact is illegal contact. You know, but like I said, there is a such thing as game flow to, like, we don't want 1000 whistles, messing up game flow, because people are here to watch them play then are here to watch us officiate. Now, there's a guideline that we have to follow. Sure. And if you like, let's say, if teams are playing hands, you know, with their hands early, you know, if you pop them early, they'll stop. Yeah, you want to bring that? Yeah, so you have to Yeah, so you have to also be in control of the game as well. Again, you have to, you know, tell them, hey, this is where the game is gonna go with this where the game is gonna stay, you know, so you can't be afraid of taking you know, taking ownership or, you know, taking over a game sharing this I was gonna be ran

Kenny Bailey<br>: 32:53

are different. I'm assuming different reveries are like the guys in charge, like you have to adjust to sort of there, like, or is it fairly consistent? Like, Well, this guy kind of, you know, the guy that generally, I read with here tends to be okay, with be a little more physical, or this

JP Primm: 33:10

one? No, that happens. And, you know, but we we have pregame talks as well. So the pregame, we go over matchups, we go over coaches, we go over players, okay, we go over, you know, what players are, you know, going to be problem players. You know, so we,

Tom Regal: 33:27

everybody knows who the problem players are.

JP Primm: 33:29

Everybody knows, everybody knows the problem, coach. Everybody knows, you know, they're like, I mean, it is what it is. And it's just like, the players know, or we know about the players, the coaches, and everything the coaches and players know about the officials. You know, there's some times where, as a player, you know, I would walk in and see a fish somewhere.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 33:51

Now, you're that guy. Yeah. You know, and,

JP Primm: 33:54

but it's the same with, you know, when you get your schedule, or when I got to deal with him. Yeah, you know, November 28. Yeah, it's gonna be a long one. But, you know, there, you don't hold grudges you don't hold. It's a mutual respect. But you know, what, you know, you know, that night that you're gonna have to bring it? Yeah, you know, or, you know, that night that if something happens, you you might have to set something straight. Yeah. You know, and

Kenny Bailey<br>: 34:20

so how much I mean, you know, during warm ups and stuff, how much talking do you guys do with the players? Is it more just, Hey, man, have a good game? Is it you know,

JP Primm: 34:28

I try to talk to the players a lot, because I think early pregame that's when you develop, you can develop the relationship right there.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 34:35

So what do you generally talk about? Um, so,

JP Primm: 34:37

you know, I might ask him, you know, you know, how was, you know, I've seen that, you know, last game, you know, you're right there and, you know, it's, you know, y'all just didn't finish it off. And, you know, or it may be a player to like one of their key players that I'm, you know, talking to and, hey, man, I see him and shooting the crap out of the ball. I keep the thing up, you know, or something like that. You know, it's like then that lets them know that we're doing our All right, you're not. You're not just pure just showing up, right? Yeah, I'm not showing up. I'm human. You don't mean, or somebody may be shooting, you know, one of their players might be shooting on the side or you know, you can miss two in a row now. Just little small conversation here. Yeah, that you can win players over just right out.

Tom Regal: 35:17

Hey, we love the game, too,

JP Primm: 35:18

right? Absolutely. We're here for that. We're here for that we're here to we're just here to make the game smooth. You know what I mean? Like, we want to see good plays, you know, we want to we want the game to go up and down. We don't want to stop the game. You know, I mean, so if we can do that and limit our whistles, the game is smoother. The flow is smoother, and everybody's happy.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 35:36

That's awesome. Yeah, it just kind of seems like that. I think there's a in my opinion of me, just be me. There's a sort of misperception you guys kind of come into rec robots. You don't talk to anybody. There's nothing that goes on. You do? Really? But

JP Primm: 35:48

now there's some officials that do that. Yeah. I'm not gonna sit here and shoot,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 35:52

but it seems to me Yeah. But it seems to me that, you know, the, the ones that seem to get along with the players more and and get a little bit more respect. So if you call it like it, like, took you dude, you knew your hand check. Yeah, like you knew that? Yeah. Because you talked to him ahead of time. Like, it seems like you can have a decent rapport and actually, you know, talk to these people as humans and, and still be able to fish aid. Right.

JP Primm: 36:10

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, but there are those officials that, you know, that they get criticized that, you know, they don't say a word, you know, they play goes on, they don't want to talk to players, they don't really want to talk to coaches. And in my, on my perception is like, the ones that are like that, they they don't know a whole lot, because they don't, they don't know what to say, to me, or they don't know how to explain what they just called, or they don't know how to, you know, correlate what just happened, ya know, so the first thing that they do, and it's crazy, because at the high school level, they don't want you talking to coaches, they don't want you talking to players. Like, it's, it was me because like, it's like, where are we building this report? You know, what I mean? It's like, if we want the if they do this at the college level, and at the, at the pro level, why are we trying to teach that at the high school level as well, you know, what I mean? Like, there weren't about plays, and they weren't about position. But at the end of the day, it's like, if you get your plays right or wrong, you still need to build a rapport within the coaches and the players. Sure, you know, and, you know, that's the that's the biggest, you know, biggest part for me is like, just communicate. Yeah, that's all they want you to do. And or sometimes coaches just want you to hear them out. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's not just always you want to fire back at him? Yeah. Sometimes they may just me just sitting over there and listening what they have to ramble about, and say, You know what, Coach, I hear you, I hear you, Coach. Yeah. And that goes a long way. Because like I said, coaches, sometimes they just want to be heard. They want you to hear that. Yeah. They want you to hear their point. They want you to hear, you know, how they are thinking now, there is a fine line. Sure. But then again, they want you to know that, hey, this is how I feel about this. And it's not they don't want you always just firing back at it. You know, so

Kenny Bailey<br>: 37:55

yeah, and I guess when you watch like some of the NBA stuff like Barkley would be like a complete, you know, smart asked, it seems like that would be the fun part of the game, right? Yeah. So I noticed in like football, for example, because I watch way too much football, but like, you know, you'd have the quarterback after a play would go up to the ref and say, Hey, man, you know, this guy is hit me kind of late. Do you have? Do you have players that come up? And like, Hey, dude, this guy's hip? Check me out. I mean, you gotta watch out for, you know, 22 over here, check me all the time or? And then does that affect you or not affect your you just say, hey, thanks. You

JP Primm: 38:25

know, you say no, I'll check it out. And like I said, sometimes a players like they'll say stuff. And they've gotten really smart. They'll say things that are not there. Yeah. You know, but it could possibly be there. Possibly not. But you know, if you give him a I'll check it. I'll take a look at it. Yeah, I'm gonna appreciate it. We'll go to the next thing, you know. And so that's kind of, you know, if you miss something, or if they think that they're getting grabbed on each possession, then sometimes they're right. Yeah, you know, because we don't, we don't see everything. We got some things and, you know, but we, our antennas do go up. It's like, alright, I'll check it out for you, you know, as an official, like I like to look at because if I was a player, and I went to official and said that, I would hope that he would, you know, at least check it out. Or if

Kenny Bailey<br>: 39:12

you're during your pregame, you find out this guy just does this at every game, correct?

JP Primm: 39:17

Correct. Because officials talk and it's like, you know, it's like, Hey, who do y'all have tonight? Or who do y'all have night? We gotta deal with, you know, 23 You know, he's gonna be trying to grab and talk crap. And we know, you know, so it's, I don't know,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 39:31

is there pressure when you have a marquee player on the on the floor? Like is there is especially on college, when you look at college, like you, you in part could have an impact on where they go on the draft? I mean, to a certain extent, I mean, like, not that not that sure what I mean by that is like if they're falling out of games all the time because they just can't seem to control their temper or whatever else marquee players, do you do you? Are you aware that there's a marquee players and absolutely, and just, it's not that you're gonna treat them any differently. But, you know, is there additional pressure?

JP Primm: 40:06

No, I don't think there's pressure. I think it's so this goes into our pregame. You know, you want to keep the starters in the game. And what I mean by that is like now we don't want to, you know, be more loose on the starters. But their starters for reason. They're going to make the game go. Yeah. When the other players come in, that's when junk is going to be thrown in the game. But that's when you're going to have whistles and whistles and whistles like, you know, I mean, yeah, it's like, I mean, they're non starters for a reason. Yeah. You know, and the main guys are the players in the starter. So like to answer your question. I don't think it's really pressure. But the pregame is talk is let's keep the best players on the floor. Got it? You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. And then marginal? Yeah. If it's marginal contact, you know, and we can play through stuff. You know, let's play through it.

Tom Regal: 41:01

Yeah. And if they're like, I would imagine if they're doing continual marginal contact, or it would be one of those. Dude, you're getting close, correct? Yeah. Well,

JP Primm: 41:08

we got to hit you. And then so now you know, you know that. There's a lot to bring. But if you set the tone early is key players or not you set the tone early is their job to adjust as players? Yeah, you know, my coach always used to tell me that it's like, no matter what officials you get, if this is how the game was going to be called, this is how the game is gonna be called need to adjust your game. You gotta join the rafts you have. It's just like, live within the day to day every day is not the same. And you got to adjust. So and that's the same as officiating, you know, from a player's perspective and from officiating perspective, ya know, so

Kenny Bailey<br>: 41:44

same thing with the coaches. And I mean, your relationship with the coaches need to be sort of do you guys talk to him before the game and say, yeah, good luck. Yeah,

JP Primm: 41:50

absolutely. We do. You know, and but you have to be careful with some coaches, some coaches are there real slick? They may try to talk to you a little bit longer. Now. The coaches down there, like

Tom Regal: 42:04

gamesmanship is gotta be there. Yeah,

JP Primm: 42:06

of course, machine runner, you know, the integrity of the game is huge. You know, so it's, but everybody essentially respects each other from the officiating coaches perception. You know, so it's, it's, but it's a fine line. But it's, it's a respect thing to

Kenny Bailey<br>: 42:25

Yeah, any apologies at the end, like, hey, sorry, got heated man, or, ya know,

JP Primm: 42:29

I've been in situations where coaches are just trying to, you know, amateur players up or get them going, and he might go off on me. And I might have to stick in with a technical Yeah. and five minutes later, he was like, Man is nothing personal. I was just trying to get my guys just trying, again, just trying to get them personal.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 42:47

Yeah, it's sort of like the baseball manager getting kicked out, right? You want to show your players you have passion to correct

JP Primm: 42:53

you know, a lot of it. And they do that at college level, and even at the pro level to like, they'll jump on you about something. And, you know, they'll come back and say, you know, it wasn't personal. My guys are playing like crap. And I'm trying to get them to fire them up. And a lot of times, you know, it's they're doing it for boosters and everything. And recruiting

Kenny Bailey<br>: 43:13

contracts on the line for the year. coaches want 11 million a year,

JP Primm: 43:18

but they know like, they know when it's when it's time to be stuck. And they don't you know, now some of them will get pretty wild. And you might have, you know, dump them but yeah, but it's fine. It's like I say it's a respect thing, and they know when it's coming. Yeah, sometimes they ask for it. Sometimes I

Tom Regal: 43:35

do it on purpose, right? Yeah. My job right now is how long am I going to have to yell? What am I going to have to use?

JP Primm: 43:45

Like I've been in games like I said, we're coaches are just getting after and my partners will not Wacom and I'm like, Dude, give it to him. And then I end up having a whack them and give them a technical. And it's like, I was trying to get your partner to do it, but he wouldn't do it. Like I'm trying to

Kenny Bailey<br>: 44:05

try to get my guys go into it.

Tom Regal: 44:07

I have to start calling your mommy stuff right? What does it take to get technical here?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 44:11

The good news too is you at least you know it right so you're like I get it you're not yelling at me you're yelling to fire somebody I get it. Okay, all right. Let's let's do the dance. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. So for your for your career development, then you will definitely want to you know, hit NBA hit marquee games and all that or do you like the college ball?

JP Primm: 44:30

I do love the college ball. But in goal is like I said I want to work at the highest level and not saying college like college basketball is tough. And college basketball is really good. Yeah. And there's a lot of money in college basketball. Yeah. The NBA for me i that. I mean, I want to be at that level one day, you know, played it, but then now officiating their full time record. completely.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 45:00

So is it? If you don't mind me asking, is it? Do you get paid like contract? It was a bye bye game. Is it a yearly contract at at the lower levels? And then or at the higher levels? Or how does it colleges

JP Primm: 45:13

per game? Okay, and then the league, it's a union, so your salary base got

Kenny Bailey<br>: 45:18

it do and then do you How much control do you have over which games you get into shape? Are you? Okay? There would be a zero. Okay, so that's like seniority is like, you know, you have

JP Primm: 45:31

seniority. So if you saw the assignor knows, though, so this one that sign it comes in play, it's like our if you've been, like I say, in the ACC for 10 years, like, you're gonna get hooked up really good. It's always a pecking order. You know? Same thing, you know, it's, if you're a vice president, you're getting hooked up. Versus you're on your first day here. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 45:53

You're getting your own coffee.

JP Primm: 45:56

Direct, you're not, you know, delivering cup getting delivered. No coffee delivered to you. So. Yeah, so it's a pecking order. And obviously, the vets get taken care of and, you know, first year through third year, and there's also like a pay grade too. So it was like tier one. tier two, tier three. Yeah. So the vets are getting the highest tier. Yeah. And next in line, like five to whatever yours are getting tier two, and then your one to four, you're getting better bottom tier.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 46:25

And is it some sort of bonus structure if you're hitting championship games or playoff games? Yep. That kind of so

JP Primm: 46:30

essentially, like if you're going to the NCAA tournament, you know, getting a bonus. Yeah. You're still getting paid. Yeah. You're still working.

Tom Regal: 46:40

Everyone else is sitting on the couch? Exactly.

JP Primm: 46:43

There you go. So yeah, so that's kind of how and you know, and same thing with conference tournament. So everybody don't get the work the conference tournament. So if you're working the conference tournament, that's your bonus, because you see

Kenny Bailey<br>: 46:53

that you're in? Or the or the assignors, looking for individual? Or do they try to match three different people because they just seem to work better? Like, is there more of a synergy?

JP Primm: 47:04

No, it'd be random. Now you are, you can get graded off your car percentage, and how you're doing in these games, they help. But it's essentially like, sometimes they're gonna take the vets to the tournament, or if you but if you do have a really good year, then you could work the first and second round of the conference. You know me if you're a young guy,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 47:27

yeah, I guess I'm trying to figure out is are other refs, either positively or negatively affecting your, your perception of your performance?

JP Primm: 47:35

Possibly, it can go that way? Because if you're in a game, and y'all completely just butcher the game, butcher rules, yeah. And kick rules as a crew. Because if one, if one, you know, if they it's on the crew, if one person kicks the rule, and they get together, and they don't know the rule, or they don't know how to, you know, tell the rule. Yeah. Then your whole crew kicks the rule. And you will get games taken away for that. Because though they they're at a level, it's like, rules are things that we can control. Yeah, you know, me like, we can't control if that play is right, every single like, we're not going to have the right play and call the right play every single possession. So we're going to misplace but rules. That's something you have to know. You know what I mean? And if it might be one person is not sure about the rule. The other two better be for sure, yeah. Because if you because after the game, what's going to happen is the coach is going to call this signer. And he's gonna say these guys kicked a roll or your sign is probably watching the game. You got your son, you're probably going, I don't know. Because this signer that I worked for the weather. Yeah, they're gonna say, yeah, come on, I'm going to take these next five games away from you. He's ACC games, you know. So the sign of that I work for him. He has eight different screens set up at his house. And he's just flipping through each night or watching watching the cruise while you know, so no pressure there at all. So So you one thing you better know is you better know rules, and you better not kick a rule. Yeah. You know, and that's it with any level because at the at the pro level, you're getting fun. Yeah. You know, if you're Oh, that's true. Yeah. Rules. Yeah, absolutely. College, there's money involved, too. But, you know, you're gonna get games taken away from you, sugar assignors. And it has been even at the NCAA Tournament, like there's been games where somebody don't move on. And that completely just had a bad game and didn't move on to the next level. The next round, NCAA Tournament, so the higher you go, the more

Kenny Bailey<br>: 49:38

so it's pretty competitive. Oh, absolutely. So I mean, it's everybody wants no different than a player at that point. Right? Absolutely. But

JP Primm: 49:43

everyone you know, at the high at the college level, everybody wants the championship game in the NCAA Tournament, national national championships here. And then it's crazy because I was talking with a buddy of mine and it's like official sometimes we're never satisfied until we get the end result. have been the crew chief, either in the national national championship or being the crew chief at game seven in the NBA. Because, because if you're the if you're the next referee, you know, the the second referee in game seven. It's like, I want to be the crew chief. Yeah. So, uh, you know, if you're in the Final Four, it's like, why didn't I get picked for the national championship? It's funny, you know me. So you're always wanting to, you know, and it's just what? Anything? That's awesome. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 50:30

So to recap, you have the players watching you, the coaches watching you, the stands are watching you. ESPN is trying to figure out whether or not you host this thing up. And then you got a handler sitting there watching you as well. But other than that, I mean, there's no such thing. Well, literally, like everybody's judging you. Yes, everybody. And that's

JP Primm: 50:50

why the game like, so when I when I was a non referee, I would always think, you know, the referees are so bad, and they miss plays. And well, it's because if you take this like, so the game is all about angles, right? And as a person in the stands, you don't have every angle. You see it from one angle. So what may look like a file from your angle that you're viewing the game is not a foul from the angle that the official is looking at the game because one there 40 feet down, you know, down the floor, and they're seeing it from a different angle. Yeah, you know, so there, there's always going to be, you know, spectators that think referees miss so many plays, because they see it from a different angle. Yeah. And I

Tom Regal: 51:38

They have the right angle. have

JP Primm: 51:42

They always, always have, you know, and so what do you think, you know, seeing it from seeing it from half court might be different from if you have a seat under the basket. Yeah, the view and the perception is totally different.

Tom Regal: 51:55

Look at it from the different TV. When you see it. What you don't see that but from here you see it? Yeah, you're like,

JP Primm: 52:01

oh, no, that's not a foul and then they do the bird's eye view. And

Kenny Bailey<br>: 52:03

you're like, oh, yeah, I'm

JP Primm: 52:05

on his own. The person in row 17 can see that. So you're the referee sucks, like, No, but you're not just getting it from one you're getting that from

Tom Regal: 52:17

from 20,000

JP Primm: 52:19

You know, so 10,000 people, so it's a tough job. It is. It's a really tough job. But

Kenny Bailey<br>: 52:26

it sounds like a ton of fun. No, I love it. All right, so Michael Jordan's days, guys getting hand checked all over the place. LeBrons not these days. Much softer game apparently. So. Goat

JP Primm: 52:41

I'm a I'm a Jordan. Thank you. I'm a Jordan guy. I I mean, I grew up watching Jordan. Like I'm I'm 32. But like I said, I grew up and I was where I can understand the game. And so I grew up kind of watching Jordan and it's to me there's you can say numbers and do all these things. And but it's to me, there's no game changer. It only changes so so much.

Tom Regal: 53:11

Change all of them.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 53:12

It's just watching the game management though. Yeah, that was fun to watch. It's a game management, right? It's just like he walked in. I mean, you know, the infamous stories like, Oh, this guy. Okay, I'm gonna do 50 tonight, right? I mean, he just just called it he was Babe Ruth in the dance.

JP Primm: 53:27

Right? i Here we go. There we go.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 53:31

Quickly, I'm gonna be scoring, you know, 13 threes on here tonight. So just get settled in. Okay, so after all of that, not just because you know, you figured that wasn't a thrill. You decided to be a road racer was

Tom Regal: 53:44

what got you into cycling out of basketball and baseball. All sports so,

JP Primm: 53:50

so it's crazy. But so I have a couple of friends who was cycling and you know, and I'm like, so I grew up on motorcycles and dirt bikes. And so the speed thing was there. Yeah, it was definitely there. And so, that part, you know, I have friends that was doing it. And then when COVID hit, I was like, you know, I'm just before COVID I'm like, I'm just too busy for it. Like there's no way that I can fit this because I know like if I jump in it, like I'm gonna be

Kenny Bailey<br>: 54:21

you seem to be an all or nothing kind of guy.

JP Primm: 54:25

I am all or nothing. It's like I'm gonna do it.

Tom Regal: 54:28

Yeah. Cuz you were just starting with COVID hit.

JP Primm: 54:31

Correct. So we hate him. Yeah. So so. So when COVID is for how many years? Okay, cool sock this guy. One COVID hit. I was like, you know, I have some time now. Yeah, you know, so let me just tamper with like thing. Yeah, let me just try. Yeah, so like, I had a like a, it was like a Walmart like bike and it was like, I mean, it was like the heaviest road bike I could ever possibly have. And I've probably have like a cross bike or something. But anyway, so I was I wrote it for a couple of days. And so my mother stays like 10 miles from me. And I was like, you know, it's fairly flat. Like, I'm gonna try to do it. Yeah. So first of all, I got out there, and I was like, you know, and I wrote back and I was like, kind of like this, you know, it's have some me time and like, I have kids to so many times. You know, and, yeah, so, so was writing, and I was like, Okay, I kind of like it, then the next day, you know, I'm writing again. And, you know, I start off at like, eight miles, and I'm like, I'm gonna do 10 miles a day. And, you know, the next week, and maybe I'll try 12. And now let's see if I can, you know, ride for an hour or two hours. And, but, so I'm like, now I know, I need to change this funky bike that I have. Now, what else do I need to get? So I was learning so much about cycling? Yeah. And, and I was, you know, got into it, and finally got a bike that was decent. And I'm like, Alright, now these pedal things like, you know, I'm learning about, you know, clipping in and I'm, you know, now fallen 10 times. You know, so all of these things that I'm learning, and I'm like, this is very intriguing, like, the mystery of, you know, everything around cyclin. Like, I love, you know what I mean? Because and so then I joined, joined a team, and you know, that was a whole, like, I went on a group ride, actually, let me rewind, I went on a group ride. And my first group ride was GSD. So I don't know if y'all know what that is. So it's basically a fast group ride out of Franklin. It starts at the Starbucks downtown. And, yeah, so and it's, I mean, it's some of the fastest people and they basically were gone. I don't know 60 Something miles of loop. I think 60 like 63 miles, and is basically a race to the chase. They group up twice, they regroup twice. So like, up Bear Creek, and all through there. We regroup and then we're just not flat by the way. Anyone? Yeah. Brutal. So this being my first group ride, so I'm getting around like, you know, I'm hearing about this.

Tom Regal: 57:19

This is your first group ride.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 57:21

Just so quick recap. This guy barely knows how to do clip, clip on pedals, shows up to a 63 mile group ride with the fastest riders and and I'm

Tom Regal: 57:29

still on that bike?

JP Primm: 57:30

This is this is I've got to know, this one's a little bit like,

Tom Regal: 57:34

you're not on the utility bike. I

JP Primm: 57:36

don't know. I have the drops. I've kind of looked apart. You know, I still have the hairy legs up again. And like yeah, so yeah, he's a rook. And so I get out there and go to the group, right? And I'm like, I'm fine. Like, I feel fine. Like the first. The first regroup I'm like, keeping up I haven't been dropped yet. And the records weren't

Tom Regal: 58:04

23 to 25 miles an hour. Yeah,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 58:06

this is insane. But just like nobody starts this way. Just so you know,

JP Primm: 58:11

like, I'm like crazy on in the fire. I know. And like people are like, Why are you doing GSD like you just got started, like, you're gonna get dropped the first 10 minutes exactly know what if I get my teeth kicked in. So who cares, I'll come back and do it again. So I didn't so I didn't get dropped until the final climb, which was probably an hour and 20 minutes in maybe 30 minutes in. So it was a really great experience. So we regroup and we regroup at the store everybody and so we're at the store and I'll tell you this is how raw was so we're about to pull out of the store and this is a group of I think the first round it was like group of 3035 people so we're coming out and there comes like a car everybody's waiting and you know, they're some of them are doing their tracks dance. Some people are unclipped and I'm like, so I'm like I'm about to go and then a car comes I'm like, Oh crap. Oh crap. Oh crap. And then all of a sudden I just fall slow fall in front of 35 people and they're like who and the crap is it and they're all checking your your

Tom Regal: 59:18

your My egos here right now but

Kenny Bailey<br>: 59:21

just what I'm blown away is like your physicality is off the charts except you don't know a damn thing about how to unclip or anything right so it's just not your physical like you're just a machine

Tom Regal: 59:34

that you were still with him had to say something exactly who is this guy? You fell now who's still hanging

Kenny Bailey<br>: 59:40

me like dude I can't get out of his clip. Yet with he's hanging with it. That's gotta be frustrating. Who

JP Primm: 59:48

the hell is this guy?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 59:50

Like I mean, I think that would regroup just to drop you like we just got we can't like you loved it, right?

JP Primm: 59:57

completely loved it and I think I went to GSD probably every Saturday that I could for a year straight. Wow.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:00:07

When did you start to like shaving? And week two or three when

Unknown: 1:00:11

I think when I got to a cat 4...3....3 Because cat four you Ken,

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:00:18

did you talk to your wife about it first Are you

JP Primm: 1:00:20

she was pissed. She, like seriously like, it was almost like a like she was she was saying like, wouldn't talk to him for a whole day. Really? Like all you shaving your legs.

Tom Regal: 1:00:32

My wife totally relates to that. She is absolutely no she.

JP Primm: 1:00:36

She was like do like, I feel like I'm curling up with the girl. And I would have you know, she's like, this is bush. She was she was fighting mad. The fact

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:00:50

that wait for cat three to you know before you shaved is actually pretty funny. Because you have. So just so people I so everybody understands, right? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but there's still sort of five categories. Right? So the cat five is if you just want to go race your first time you don't need anyone to crash.

Tom Regal: 1:01:09

To cat fvle. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:01:10

And then what you have to start there. Yeah. So you have to start. I think you have to do a minimum of 10 races before you get into cat four, I think is what it is. Yeah, but

JP Primm: 1:01:16

now they have like where you can like go from? Like, just be a cat four. Okay, so it used to be I think you had a crash fast, correct? Well, you will you still had the race fours and fives because they have time ago.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:01:31

But as you move along, so cat three cat to cat one. You're getting faster. You're getting better you're getting so in your cat one pro at this point? Is that what it is? So for most people, for most humans that start out it's several years, but it's not. And I want to impress upon people how impressive this is. It's not just speed, it's bike handling. That is by far the biggest thing. Yeah. And you're doing criterium. So how is it criterium different than like a road race? Probably people

JP Primm: 1:02:00

will just imagine. So a four corner, standard four corner, mile long credit race for an hour and 10 minutes. And there's 110 people and everybody is trying to get out and go to one place at one time. So that is just complete.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:02:22

So it's a one mile loop for an hour in 10 minutes as fast as humanly possible. Fast. It's NASCAR, you're bumping, you're hitting rockets. It's yeah, okay, but a road race is much more races row race is gonna be strung out. It's like what people see on TV, right?

JP Primm: 1:02:38

Yeah, correct. Tour de France. Yeah. 100. And it depends on which row race you're doing. It may be 100 miles, it may be 115 and may be at 60. Depending on your category climbing might not be Yeah, might be whatever. Correct. Flat crit is majority flat. And firstly, for bigger people like myself. That it's a

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:03:01

relative term, right? I mean, bigger people in cycling, like if you're 145 pounds on road, you're you're you're good. You're good. Right, but 65 is correct.

JP Primm: 1:03:09

It's almost heavy. Yeah, exactly. So it's in crit is flat. So you know, we carry the bigger guys tend to carry speed a little bit better. Yeah. But we do have to put out more power because it's obviously watts per kilogram. Yeah. So we do have to produce more, but we carry more as well. So the flat helps the bigger riders.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:03:30

Yeah. So I guess I'm trying to I'm trying to impress upon here early 2020. You're trying to figure out how to get into clips, pedals, when you're doing Fast forward to now crits are incredibly fast. Years later, you Yeah, two years. In two years. You went from what's a clip on? Or what's a clipless? Pedal? Right? What's a bike? And two, because I've been in crits before and they're tricky. You got to know what you're doing. Right? Yeah, very true. And the fact that you're the state champion, going from that fast is ridiculously stupid, and I hate you. So, so So how did you figure out the handling part? Like was it easy for you? Because you've had a background in sports and basketball? Or was it just because that to me is the difference between you sitting in an ambulance

Tom Regal: 1:04:14

and a motorcycle as it was that it's moto riding? Do you learn balance you learn handling? Because it's all that it is? That's what relates

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:04:24

to like, yeah, 120 people it's it's turning,

Tom Regal: 1:04:26

turning. Most people think that you turn the wheel No, you have to have a certain you gotta it's all physics, right? Yeah, certainly. Power. What speed Yes. So

JP Primm: 1:04:35

that it's awesome. That right there is I mean, this is spot on. And like I said, I've driven motorcycles that are very, very high speed. I

Tom Regal: 1:04:45

gotta say you were a kid with a motor. You went fast?

JP Primm: 1:04:49

Yes. Correct. And you know, even in my years, you know, it's probably driven motorcycles faster than I probably should have. But even like handling bike at that high speed helped me with the bike. Now it is different. Because now you're now you're in a field of, you know, 110 people, you know, trying to all squeezed in and try to get to one place, shoulder, shoulder, shoulder to shoulder. So that part was different. That part took me a little bit to get used to because when I first started, there were a couple of races that I went down hard. And, and it was just a lot of, you know, front load a back wheel, little small things like touch, little touch. And you know, that threw me and so that part was tough for me to figure out. Okay, now and then you go from there. So in 2020 I think I've raced maybe five races in 2020. And then from 2021 to the end, that's I started 2021 season as a cat. Three. And then when all I was a one by the end of the season, so essentially, I got to a cat one in a season, basically. Yeah,

Tom Regal: 1:06:02

you just rode so I take a partial recur? Yeah, well, yeah, correct.

JP Primm: 1:06:06

So and that was the biggest thing. It's like, if we're gonna do this, let's do it. But then there's no better way to do it then to be thrown in a fire and figure it out. I know, because I've always been a, you know, get thrown in the fire. I'll figure it out. Or I'll find somebody that'll help me figure it out. And, you know, so that, so to answer you, the main thing for me was not that bike handling part, but being comfortable around 100 other guys Yeah, you know, going 35 miles, 35 miles an hour.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:06:36

Yes. And you know, you're hitting, you know, your shirt, like shoulder

JP Primm: 1:06:40

people, like this past weekend. I mean, there's 115 people in the field. And, you know, everybody is trying to do one thing, they're trying to win the race. So there's going to be bumping, there's gonna be banging. There's gonna be, you know, people getting cussed out, there's no, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's part of it. And it's, it's like NASCAR, it's like, people want to see the final five, six laps. And it's the same thing with Kurt racing, ya know, it's they're there to watch the end of the race. And there's Rex after Rex after Rex. But the bike hailing thing is

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:07:10

an absolute level. I mean, because that's, that's the hardest thing to learn, right? Which is, is is not just hey, I can go fast, and I'm comfortable going fast, I know how to handle it, it's I gotta handle it with literally, you know, you're in the middle of a group of, you know, there's literally eight bikes surrounding you. And you got to figure out how to kind of get your way into the front. Third, because generally, if you're not in the front, or the back, there's where the wrecks occur. I mean, you just you're strategizing where to be and who to follow and how

JP Primm: 1:07:37

to conserve, actually, and that's a whole another thing. It's like, it's insane, you know, you don't want to use too much power. And, you know, if you're not sitting on a wheel, then so you know, then then you're out in the wind, and now you're using way too much power. And when four come, you know, when four to go, you don't have enough to be there at the finish. So that part and it's all of that tied in to that quit racing. Yeah. And it's, it's brutal, and I'm still learning. You know, even though I've had some really good wins under my belt, there's still so much to learn. And you know, you learn in every single race, and, you know, now once you think that you have the fitness part down, now, it's not just a fitness now it's everything else. I mean, or when you think you have everything else down. It's like, shit, now, I can't be there before to go because I'm exhausted. Exactly. My bike handling skills are really good.

Tom Regal: 1:08:36

Showed up exactly, yes. So

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:08:39

I think I would love to have another podcast is to talk about that, because I'm a huge cycling geek. And it'd be fun to do that

Tom Regal: 1:08:45

for everybody listening. I mean, there is there are a lot of races that go on. If you haven't followed crit racing, there is a huge series that goes on you can, you can follow it locally. If you get to shrink, if you can actually go to a race, it's gonna feel the energy of these bikes, how fast they're traveling, what they're actually doing. It's super exciting. I mean, if you like any kind of racing, it's amazing.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:09:09

What people don't understand too, because you see it on you like you watch the stuff on the Tour de France and stuff and you're you're hearing the commentators and you see the helicopters. The sound that a peloton makes is absolutely incredible, right? You've I just remember when we were doing group rides like the same thing we do. Back in Northern California, we were doing I was roadracing not your degree. But like when one guy clipped in for the group ride, all you hear is like 5060 people go by voice clip, and then you hear the trailers going and you just hear like, you know, and just the spin of the wheel and when you're in that and to your point, it's a lot like like you said it's a lot like basketball. It's not like you're the kind of person that seems like you love the idea of just intense focus. You know, your tunnel vision and you just live for tunnel vision. So, wrestling alligators next is jumping off of climbing Everest what they LLCs What do you got?

Tom Regal: 1:10:01

I feel I feel a triathlon coming in.

JP Primm: 1:10:03

I feel running is crazy.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:10:06

Nobody likes running.

JP Primm: 1:10:07

It's crazy because I hate run. I was telling a friend I'm like, there's a good balance. So the referee and thing like obviously I have to run. But then it's like, for longevity, like that's why I love the cycling because there's no human being in

Tom Regal: 1:10:22

Virginia, the bone density a little bit.

JP Primm: 1:10:26

But that's fine. That's my referee.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:10:30

Running he'll probably run like a six minute like, yeah.

JP Primm: 1:10:35

I'm heavy for your runner. So you were probably be wrong.

Tom Regal: 1:10:40

At this point, everybody, yes, yeah.

JP Primm: 1:10:42

But that's one thing.

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:10:44

So what do you got coming up, man?

JP Primm: 1:10:46

What's next?

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:10:48

What do you wanna plug? What's what's going on in your life?

JP Primm: 1:10:51

Well, basketball season is right around the corner. So I'm tickled to death. You know about that. My Asana caught me two weeks ago, and I will be going to a preseason tournament in Jamaica. Nice. Cool. I'm super tickled to death about that. So I'm wife, he's coming out there with me. So it'd be cool to you know, spend five, six days out there in Jamaica

Kenny Bailey<br>: 1:11:18

grow legs out. Are you going to keep them shaved?

JP Primm: 1:11:20

No, they're not once you shave when you're single? Because she might get used to it.

Tom Regal: 1:11:27

Yeah. Just got her used to it.

JP Primm: 1:11:30

This is gonna be fighting, mad. Correct. So it's, um, but yeah, so that's, that's, that's next. And I'm interested to see kind of where the, where the cyclin

Tom Regal: 1:11:41

how you fit the cycling into the season to the to the basketball season.

JP Primm: 1:11:45

So I traveled when I when I travel I if they're not driving distance, like if I their two day, three day trips, and I take my bike trainer, you know, put on the trainer. And then if there's a multi day trip, and I'm flying, like I'll take my bike. I'll try to ride out there. Because I mean, essentially like that's the the meat of the offseason. I mean, you're talking about from November to March. You know, so it's like, do like if I don't get it in and the run is going to may or may not need to at least maintain. Yeah, at least me when everybody else is logged in 20 plus hours a week. Yeah. Like, you're gonna be spit out the back come. April, May, you know, so? Yeah. So I'm interested to see, you know, where the cyclin thing takes me cool. I'm not ready to, you know, so. So yeah. So it'll, it'll be fun. But like I said, looking so forward to what next? Your next season has in store. So exciting.

Tom Regal: 1:12:50

Oh, that's great. Yeah. So thanks for joining us. I mean, this has been fantastic. Really appreciate your time. It's been great. Everyone who's listening. Thanks. Thanks for chiming in giving us your thoughts and feedback. Give us some thumbs up five stars. Share this with everybody. I mean, all of that helps the algorithms and gets us out there a little bit further. So we really appreciate all the feedback that we have gotten. Kenny, thank you so much. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. And everyone we'll catch you on the next one.