Coach Tom (00:01.676)

Hey, good morning, Kenning, how are you today?

Kenny Bailey (00:03.474)

I am Fantastic Tom, how are you?

Coach Tom (00:05.342)

I'm fantastic as well. We're back on with Corelle Laurent talking all things nutrition today. So we've thank you for coming back on. Corelle has become a regular because we like her so much. She's so smart and she's really helping us tremendously, especially as we go through the season. So we've been focusing on different parts of the season and different ways to eat healthy. So Corelle, welcome back. Thanks for taking time to be with us again.

Karelle (00:18.077)

You

Coach Tom (00:34.67)

So we wanted to talk today. Well, let me I have to do the business side of things, right? I have to do the make make sure you subscribe There'll be buttons up if you're watching on YouTube, you know, make sure to subscribe put that on there It'll give you a little notification when we put our new episodes out Give us five stars thumbs up all that good stuff that helps bounce the algorithm up a little bit higher It gets this out to more people. We've had some really good downloads. I had forgot to check the countries before we did this again, but we want to

Kenny Bailey (00:39.209)

Yeah

Coach Tom (01:02.688)

still say hi to our friends in Frankfurt, Germany. You guys keep listening and watching, so we appreciate you and everyone else. So let's get into it. We're in the middle of the season now. We're deep into June. This episode is probably going to come out one more week. So yeah, deep into June here. And we're in racing season. We're full on.

Kenny Bailey (01:05.982)

Hey, Jordan.

Coach Tom (01:28.16)

struggling with trying to get our training going through and trying to eat the right foods. I know Kenny and I have talked about horrible gel experiences in the past, eating the artificial stuff and trying to get through this. So, Corel, walk us through, do we need to be doing this time of year as we're training? Because we need to do, we've got our racing, but we also need to be eating.

better quality food for our training. So let's start there. Let's start at the training part and then we'll walk into what we're gonna eat for our actual races. So give us some help. Kenny and I are struggling.

Karelle (01:59.657)

the racing part.

Karelle (02:06.005)

Well, hi everyone. Thank you for having me again.

on the podcast Tom and Kenny. All right, so yes, it is, we are rightly into the deep season of racing, but before racing, as we're saying into training, we need to really nourish ourselves with whole food. This is really a primary key. Why is this important? I know we're just probably struggling with time at that moment because we are increasing the volume. We're probably looking at a few more hours juggling work, juggling family, juggling

deadline with work and end of school year if you have children where it just adds to the calendar. But this is a really important priority. Sleep and whole food because it will give you the nutrients that you are losing throughout the training. So as you are increasing volume, you're producing more energy, you're breaking down muscle, you're repairing muscle, you need more nutrients. You need to have this coming from whole food. There's not going to be

that's going to help you with this. The supplements will be having a small margin of help, but food is going to be your, again, we're looking at, I think we spoke about that last time, the pyramid is the foundation of that pillar of the pyramid, and that's really, really important. So when we're looking at whole food, we're looking at breakfast, lunch, dinner, and potentially to snacks that are going to be really,

Coach Tom (03:23.47)

Triangle,

Karelle (03:39.907)

your source of food. On top of that, have your...

during the effort and that's something we can discuss separately. So anticipate your meal. So if we look at your meal for day to day, anticipate, maybe make a list on the Sunday when you are, you know, chilling on the sofa and catching up on what's gonna happen this week. Just take a little bit of a pen and paper or your phone and what am I gonna eat this week? What should I order? You can do your food delivery or you can go to the grocery stores but anticipate.

of what are the key foods you can have in stock to make sure you can maybe spend your Sunday evening cooking a couple of meals or doing a little bit of batch cooking. And that could be, you know, cooking a whole chicken or cooking a couple of chicken breasts, maybe cook a salmon at the same time, have that in Tupperware, in glass Tupperware. Maybe you can make some quinoa so you'll have the quinoa or rice, whatever you prefer, or even roasted potatoes.

Absolutely fine for me, but those are going to be your your carbohydrates so your quinoa your sweet potatoes your potatoes Your rice it's going to be your carbohydrate your complex carbohydrate giving you a really good source of energy food your rice your sorry apologies your chicken and

your fish, that's going to be your protein, they will be important for your repair. And then next to that you have your vegetables. Your vegetables are to have different roles, they will be a source of fiber helping with nutrient intake as well, and that's really important to have in terms of reboosting that. There's always easy ways of getting vegetables. You can have things that are already prepared. So cherry tomato, cucumber, that's so easy to have in the fridge and you can just slice cherry

Karelle (05:35.207)

tomato into and you've got that in your in your little lunch box or your ready meal. You can have cucumber that's so easy as well. Sometimes you have if you have a nice grocery stores next to you, you already have shredded carrots that is readily available. So that's quite easy. You can look at because shredding carrots can take a bit of time and that I can understand that it's taking time that might not be easy. You can make a couple of hard boiled eggs.

You know, so all of this anticipation could be really practical. You can cook as well, couple of broccoli, a bit of cauliflower, you put that in another Tupperware. So when you are ready to eat your lunch and you've done your training and you're between two calls, or you're about to go to work and you want to bring your lunchbox because options at works are limited, you can just pull a little lunchbox together, have a bit of quinoa or your rice, you have a bit of cherry tomato, a bit of those crudités we talked about, a couple of

broccoli, then you will have your protein, your chicken, drizzle olive oil and that's just amazing. That's all you need. So the question is, it's easy to do once you have been able to anticipate and plan that out ahead. And that will give you so much more than just going across the street and buying a sandwich. That sandwich is not going to give you as much support. And how you're going to see the difference is the recovery, your ability to follow

the training plan that your coach is giving you. Because if you eat those nourishing food, you are going to go into your training with a much more stable energy level and that's going to help you to be able to commit to your training plan. Now we go to your second question Tom, is you interrupt me if I'm talking too much. of course.

Kenny Bailey (07:25.204)

Good.

Coach Tom (07:25.697)

Let's go back one second before we get onto that because it's basically just simplifying everything. And I know my wife and I will get into a rhythm of doing some meal prep. And that's fantastic for me to eat during the day because my day is very busy. I have clients coming in and I don't always get time for lunch. So I need to have that readily available.

Karelle (07:38.996)

Yeah.

Karelle (07:44.148)

Yeah.

Karelle (07:49.64)

Yeah.

Karelle (07:53.374)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (07:53.952)

It's when we get out of that rhythm that we just, it goes off the rails and it just like, and then it's like pizza and grabbing whatever. And at that point it's just calories because I'm crashing at that point. I'm mentally fatigued trying to go through and do bike fits and like, I'm just trying to eat calories. And that's where everything goes off the rails for me. And that just drives me crazy because then I don't feel good. I have some energy.

Karelle (07:57.333)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (08:09.054)

Yeah.

Karelle (08:16.575)

Yeah.

Karelle (08:20.127)

Mm-hmm.

Coach Tom (08:23.042)

but I don't feel good and then everything else like goes crazy. yeah.

Kenny Bailey (08:27.57)

Yeah, I think one of the epiphany I'm having on this actually is not necessarily, I think we have this sort of black and white. Either you start from scratch and make everything, or you meal prep. And I tried meal prepping before, but day three into it, you're eating the same sort of thing. What my wife has done is she's like, I don't know what you want for dinner, so I'm just gonna get a bunch of ingredients and then you'll figure it out from there.

Karelle (08:27.754)

Yeah.

Karelle (08:36.819)

Yes. Yeah.

Karelle (08:44.767)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (08:53.702)

And so last night we had a bunch of vegetables, some chicken breast, some quinoa. So I'm like, okay, I'll chop up some chicken. You know, I can chop up some vegetables, put that in. 10 minutes later we're eating. And I the epiphany for me is we can prep the ingredients. Because the prep part of the meal sometimes is the longest part, not the cooking of it, right? And so if I already have pre-chopped, like you said, shredded carrots, pre-chopped vegetables, pre-chopped things, I can just combine and go. It's not that difficult.

Coach Tom (09:14.286)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (09:23.4)

That part seems to be, I think, the thing that we're settling in. That gives me the variety that I'm looking for. not just having four, and bless people that can do this. I wish I had the patience, but I can't just do brown rice and chicken or turkey burger in like a potato four days in a row. But if you give me variety of vegetables and proteins that are pre-cut, ready to go, that's much easier.

Karelle (09:46.021)

Exactly. You absolutely spot on Kenny. When we say meal prepping, doesn't mean you need to mix lasagna for three days. For me, meal prepping, I think we need to be clear on that. you're right.

Kenny Bailey (09:54.344)

Yes.

Coach Tom (09:55.598)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kenny Bailey (09:58.312)

Yeah, but I think that's what people think when they think meal prep. It's so simple. You I have to have my, you you see the videos, right? You got some yoked up dude making nine, you know, of the exact same thing for the week. And you're like, my God, I want to poke my eyeballs out. I just, I can't do that. Right. So.

Karelle (10:13.717)

But you are spot on and I'm so glad you're saying that because meal prepping to me in my language is just, you know, having a little bit of broccoli in the Tupperware but I don't want to eat this for five days. I want to change it all around. But for example, last night I've made a... because... I can't pound my time. I'm like you. I don't have a lot of time. So when I'm cooking my dinner, I'm cooking something else that I'm going to have as a meal prep. So I'm going to cook a couple of

Kenny Bailey (10:16.21)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (10:24.99)

Yeah. Correct.

Kenny Bailey (10:42.248)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (10:43.761)

vegetables because I'm already thinking okay tomorrow lunchtime there's three person in this house having lunch here and plus a lunch box so I need to make sure I'm not only making for dinner but I can add this this this this this and that's making a meal okay and then if I yes so the dog the dog is a specific meal yeah but

Coach Tom (10:47.285)

huh.

Kenny Bailey (10:47.848)

Yes.

Kenny Bailey (10:55.912)

Yep. Yep. Yeah. And we have a dog tax too, so we have to go a little to the dog. it's a... The rice gets a dog tax. you know, two and a quarter cups of rice.

Coach Tom (11:02.862)

There's a complete tax on them

Karelle (11:11.143)

And I think you are spot on when you are mentioning a little bit of social media because when you look at Instagram you all see all of this food and it's all looking incredible and it's all looking like they have this incredible chef in the house. No, we need to stop this. It needs to be really simple and then you can increase. So your quinoa salad, I'm saying quinoa salad, please do not feel like you need to eat quinoa salad every day but it's just what comes to my mind, okay?

Kenny Bailey (11:26.28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Tom (11:37.742)

Yeah

Kenny Bailey (11:38.15)

Yeah

Karelle (11:41.047)

personally don't really like, know, much more than brown rice person. I do have it, but it's not, I'm...

Kenny Bailey (11:43.764)

the truth comes out. Breaking. That's the title of this podcast. Dirty secret. Carielle doesn't like quinoa.

Karelle (11:55.057)

Yeah exactly, but it's a...

Coach Tom (11:57.496)

Yeah

Kenny Bailey (11:59.122)

Watch 12 minutes in and she confesses her.

Karelle (12:04.236)

Well, it's not because you're nutritionist that you have to like everything. We are just all the same. okay, we're going to say brown rice salad. So it can be just really simple and then after you're at the supermarket, oh, there's endamame and they're already ready. Oh, I can add that to my salad. Oh, great, so you have one more food. And a week later, you're like, oh, actually, I really like to have, I don't know, it could be anything else.

Kenny Bailey (12:07.59)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (12:09.314)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (12:13.661)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (12:13.87)

There you go.

Karelle (12:32.791)

or whatever, then you add to this. I can actually have some little onions that I'm roasting. Adding to that, I can add mushrooms. So it doesn't have to be complex. It can be very simple. On my website, I've got a couple of recipes for meals, and I'm not trying to be a Jamie Oliver of athletic performance, but it's very simplistic recipes where it's like, okay, great. There's like a bean salad. I can make that. This is easy. It's got three ingredients.

great she's got a mince beef that she's adding a couple of spinach into it and red cabbage I can do that and I'll serve that with a brown rice or quinoa. And it's my goal and that's how I work with my clients is I'm not trying to say to sell a meal plan it's to say okay where are you feeling comfortable and we're slowly increasing that so we increasing the diversity the nutrient density and just keeping it

Coach Tom (13:13.838)

Okay, well...

Karelle (13:32.681)

simple, really simple.

Coach Tom (13:35.224)

how do we break apart how much of what we need? So there's the whole thing on how much protein we need to be having as athletes, as much as two grams per kilogram of body weight, which is a lot. And then you also need to have a ridiculous amount of vegetables on top of that. you end up like, I end up with salads that like, I use a serving bowl for my salad bowl. I have a specific bowl that's just for me.

Karelle (13:43.86)

Yeah.

Karelle (13:49.639)

Yeah, it's a lot.

Kenny Bailey (13:55.784)

your body weight in water, in ounces.

Karelle (14:02.11)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (14:04.322)

that's bigger than every other bowl in the house because I can't fit everything in it if I do it any other way.

Karelle (14:09.563)

No. it's and also I think different countries would have different sizing of plates without pointing any fingers. Yeah.

Coach Tom (14:16.014)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (14:19.41)

Yes, the US makes huge.

Coach Tom (14:21.654)

No, I have to get an Italian pasta bowl for my salad bowl because the American salad bowls are way too small. So I'm just gonna, yeah. Yeah, it's it's, what is this? Yeah, the plates, the plates are massive.

Kenny Bailey (14:24.762)

Yeah.

Karelle (14:27.706)

too small because it's like a starter yeah so

Kenny Bailey (14:29.458)

Yeah, but the plates are,

Karelle (14:32.753)

Yeah, the plates are. So if we look at, and I've got that and I can send you the link, but if you look at a plate, the way I usually start to work before we look at how much you should have, because we tend to focus, again, like Kenny was saying, we tend to focus on the black and white. Okay, but so how much protein should I get? This is besides the point. The point is what everything else, how is that fitting together on your plate? What do you need to have as a normal functioning person?

and being an athlete is also part of it, right? What should you have in your plate? So I always start with this work first because that helps to shift a little bit of taking the guilty part out and rather than focusing on the numbers, we're focusing on visual aspect and that stays longer. So looking at a plate, I usually would say you break this apart in four parts, just like a pie.

Generous size but not too much. doesn't have to be too much. The goal is you need to be able to finish that plate. So don't go overboard. And the first quarter could be your leafy greens, your salad, your lettuce. And this is really important because if someone's trying to lose weight, I would sometimes see that this is the whole plate and there's only a little bit of carbs or little bit of protein. So I need you to understand that this is a quarter and it's important to be present, but it doesn't have to be more than that. Because it's going to give

you your magnesium rich foods, it creates the digestion so it's forced you to chew as well. So it really helps you to create digestive enzymes in your digestive tract. Then you would have what we call the non starchy vegetables. the vegetables that grow above the ground. So they pour in sugar, super rich in vitamins and nutrients. So we can name a few like avocado, cherry tomato, onions, broccoli, cauliflower.

And depending on where you are in your nutritional journey, it could be one or two at the beginning and it could be a diversity of three or four, especially if you are good at preparing a few Tupperware in advance. The more is the better here, but it doesn't have necessarily to be a half of the plate again. So I would say the half of the plate is the lettuce with this. Okay, so you already have half of your plate with vegetables. Drizzle with olive oil, that's great.

Coach Tom (16:41.902)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (16:52.212)

Mm-hmm.

Karelle (16:57.847)

of your protein. Two grams per body weight is too much. This is too much. And what I see sometimes is that people are focusing so much in getting the protein, then they don't eat the rest. So take that away from, you know, the stress away from that and look at a chicken breast. Chicken, so I'm gonna talk in grams. You're welcome to translate. I'm not great at this, but.

Kenny Bailey (17:09.94)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (17:18.036)

Mm.

That's okay.

Coach Tom (17:20.814)

No, no, we're not we're gonna talk in grams cuz that's what we should be doing. No, that's Yes

Karelle (17:24.981)

sorry guys okay great

Kenny Bailey (17:27.284)

Because the folks in Germany want us to do that.

Karelle (17:31.509)

So if you look at a chicken breast for example, it's about 100 grams when you buy a chicken breast in the shop in Europe. And that will give you 28 to 30 grams of protein. That's perfect for a meal. That's just perfect. You don't need to have more. Now 10 % minus 10, 15 % that's okay. Some people would have a smaller appetite and their goal is going to be drastically different than another person. So depending on your goal, I would always refine that. But in a

Kenny Bailey (17:38.792)

Yeah

Karelle (18:01.463)

second stage, not in the first stage. It's too overwhelming. And then we have our carbohydrates. So it could be your pasta, your bread or whatever, depending on where you are as well. But then we can tend to look into more complex carbohydrates. And that could be something like the brown rice, the quinoa, the pumpkin, sweet potatoes, et cetera. Now you would have people that are plant based and they obviously won't have the chicken. And for them, they may

Kenny Bailey (18:20.392)

Yeah.

Karelle (18:31.383)

they may be wanting to combine legumes and...

grains and together that's going to give them. So for these folks, we don't look at numbers, we don't look at quantities, we look at the quality of their protein and that's far superior. So they won't necessarily have the ability to achieve the same amount of protein, body weight, but that's okay because they will get so much more out of those plant-based proteins. So that's a slightly different aspect to look into. But then you have your lovely plate, you drizzle

liver you can have what and I think we spoke about that what's palatable for you it could be spicy for someone for me has to be crunchy so I put my seeds to it and it could be whatever you think it works for you right and that's it so that's a really nice balanced plate so I would start with that and then when you are later stage in specific demand or specific needs then we can always target this differently with some

Kenny Bailey (19:24.649)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (19:35.448)

then you can add that.

Kenny Bailey (19:35.794)

Yeah, I have a question about that because I think there's always been, you know, that's great when you're kind of you have time and you're sitting down to your meal. think there, I guess I need to ask, is it a myth or not a myth? Like I do a good breakfast. I do some energy stuff during a ride. It's a three hour training ride right after my three hour training ride. My glycogen window is, is a glycogen window a thing and not a thing. And what right after that I'm sitting at a parking lot someplace, you know, with my bike, what should I have with me right after that ride?

Karelle (19:36.279)

Yeah.

Karelle (19:52.457)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (20:06.162)

or that run.

Karelle (20:06.471)

No, you're absolutely right.

So you've had your good breakfast, you go for your ride, you need to fuel during that ride, depending on how long that ride is. But if you say something like three hours, it's really important that you fuel regularly during that ride. I think we spoke about that, but we can really touch on again. Now you're after you have what we call the metabolic window. It's slightly different for men than women. It was a little bit controversial at some point, but what happens is because your insulin is quite high,

Kenny Bailey (20:14.323)

Yep.

Kenny Bailey (20:23.796)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yep.

Kenny Bailey (20:30.055)

Okay.

Karelle (20:38.591)

have the ability to absorb a lot more nutrients and that's a really important opportunity because you can get you can bank quite a lot of nutrients to replace here that you've lost. So the first thing is when you're in the car park if you have a bit of a drive to go home you could maybe have something that is like simple protein powder that you mix with some water. Look at the protein powder that could have a bit of carbohydrate and protein in there that would be great. Then when you go home you need to

Kenny Bailey (21:06.494)

Yeah.

Karelle (21:08.531)

a meal. So all of this could be within 45 minutes to an hour. And why is this important? Because that's going to impact your recovery. That is what's going to impact your recovery and potentially your cravings later in the afternoon. And what I have seen in clinic working with athletes for over five years now is when this is compromised or this is rushed, then we usually have people being really hungry in the afternoon. Because

Kenny Bailey (21:22.729)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (21:36.45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (21:36.824)

Yeah, and that's me. No, yeah, and then I want to eat like, well, to Tom's point, then you start looking towards burgers or pizza or something that's just, you crave sort of fat and you want to just, you know.

Karelle (21:38.461)

Yo. Yes.

That's it.

Karelle (21:48.723)

That's it. Because your body is signaling that it's missing something. So your adrenaline is sent absolutely to be like, now you need to get me what I need. And what I need is not necessarily, you know, the, yes, because it's a blood sugar response.

Coach Tom (22:02.606)

Yeah, yeah. is there a certain amount, sorry, is there a certain amount of protein versus carbohydrates that you need to have right after the workout? What's our ratio? There's companies that sell you a four to one carbs to protein ratio. There's other places that say just go straight to protein. How do we fuel this up?

Kenny Bailey (22:02.782)

The healthiest thing ever, yeah.

Karelle (22:13.022)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (22:20.18)

Three to one, yeah.

Karelle (22:24.593)

No, you're not going straight to protein because there's three elements of your post workout recovery that are important. Your carbohydrate, that should be the immediate. Especially we're talking in the context of someone who's training for a race in the next coming week. So that means your volume is high. It means you are sometimes training twice a week, if not every day. Okay. So we're not talking about the person who's doing one session a week. This is slightly different approach.

Now for someone who has that that That training consistency you need to have priority in carbohydrate and Because that's replenishing replenishing your glycogen storage. Otherwise you feel your energy level being low If not doing that day you'll feel it on your way to the next session the day after and I often would have clients saying I still haven't recovered. I had like a double day on Saturday, and it's Tuesday. I'm feeling so tired and if

It may be in the middle of a conversation but I would be like, your recovery is not great. What have you done? What have we been eating? but I couldn't because I got home and then banged the kids and I needed to drive them at the birthday party. So this is where anticipate a lot of the part of our job as triathletes and it's the anticipation. Do you have something ready when you come back? Is there something ready in the car? Can, do you have time to just get something in before you have

Kenny Bailey (23:35.988)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (23:36.524)

Yeah, yeah,

Karelle (23:54.329)

time to go for a shower before you go to work. So think about the food. It's a priority, right? So carbohydrate is the number one. It could be between 20 gram to 30 gram depending on the volume. I usually do a really targeted approach depending on the athletes as well. But that's going to help you replenish your glycogen storage. Okay. Then the second part, which that's where we know now that's little bit more delays for men. It could be about 45 minutes to an hour, a lady hour.

Coach Tom (23:56.748)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (24:24.183)

would say 30 to 45 minutes, slightly shorter and that's your protein because you need that for the repair but the repair won't happen now, the repair will happen later, it's more of a okay so and that's really really important.

Coach Tom (24:29.272)

Okay.

Kenny Bailey (24:33.94)

Hmm.

Kenny Bailey (24:38.766)

And that's when you eat the burger. No, okay. Sorry. Okay, burger bad, got it. No, I'm just thinking, yeah.

Karelle (24:44.469)

It depends. Well no, burger is not bad. You can make burger at home with nice beef and a nice piece of bread. You know. I know. I know what you mean.

Kenny Bailey (24:53.02)

Yeah, yeah, I'm kidding, yes. Yeah, yeah. I know, it's chopped beef with quinoa. I get it, eat the quinoa. This episode is brought to you by Quinoa.

Coach Tom (24:53.838)

The ones he's talking about are the monster 6,000 calorie dripping with cheese.

Karelle (25:01.141)

No, you don't have to in the Kino app, but...

You know a farmer. And then, what's also really important is antioxidant. And aging is really important because what happens is, so not aging, I'm going back, you produce energy in your kreb cycle when you produce energy, you have some byproduct of that energy production, what we call the scavenger, okay, the free radicals. You need to be able to shuttle that back and potentially reuse them. And that's where antioxidants are really

Kenny Bailey (25:29.012)

Yeah.

Karelle (25:35.655)

So in that smoothie if you're home you can add some blueberries, can have some dark chocolate, you can have some... and that's why we often forget about this because we just go, okay, carbs, protein. But the antioxidant is really important because you have that build up of free radicals that... and I do really interesting tests that I often do with clients, you know, like off season, so how is my numbers going? So it's called the Metabolomic Test and we look...

Kenny Bailey (25:49.492)

That's a great point.

Karelle (26:05.599)

at five or six different aspects in the body, elimination, detoxification and inflammation, microbiome, etc. And one of them is your antioxidant. And often this is what we miss, the antioxidant part, because you have that buildup, that increase. And what is the result of that? We are aging or you could have some other side effect in terms of buildup of free radicals. So really important not to think about that. So that's where you can have black chocolate.

Coach Tom (26:35.031)

huh. That is a dark chocolate. Yes.

Kenny Bailey (26:35.364)

there you go. Yay!

Karelle (26:35.68)

or raw cacao. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (26:39.736)

We always have some dark chocolate in the house, plus there's usually a bowl of blueberries on the counter. Because I have a sweet tooth that I try to fight off. And I do pretty good with it until around the holidays. And then the Christmas cookies come out. And then all of sudden, it sends me skyrocketing. So I'm always trying to go by and grab some blueberries when I go through the kitchen or some dark chocolate.

Karelle (26:51.86)

Yeah.

Karelle (26:56.135)

and it comes back up.

Kenny Bailey (26:56.244)

So good.

Karelle (27:02.921)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (27:04.39)

Okay, so we've done a great job on our prep. We've done a great job during training. We've ate our free radicals. We have more quinoa than we can count. It's race day, right? And you know, we're looking at a pretty, so let's assume sort of a longer race, like a half Ironman to a full Ironman kind of level of race. Lay that day out for us. How, you know, I think we started this thing saying sometimes, I know I tried early on it with gels. It just made my stomach.

Coach Tom (27:12.11)

You

Karelle (27:14.889)

Yeah.

Karelle (27:20.405)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (27:33.534)

go nuts, I'm trying to move towards Whole Foods on the bike at least, what do you recommend as far as how that day should unfold?

Karelle (27:45.343)

So, Race Day doesn't start as Race Day, feel like I have to start here.

Kenny Bailey (27:48.658)

Yeah, yeah, I kind of figured I teed this up for you, so. Yep.

Coach Tom (27:50.528)

It's in your training, right? Yeah, yeah.

Karelle (27:53.285)

Yes, you totally did. Day doesn't start on Race Day. Race Day starts 8 to 10 weeks before Race Day. And I'm so glad I'm on the same page. So that gel or anything else, if you come and work with me, Kenny, for example, you would start and say, Karell, you know, I've tested this gel in the past, this one, it really doesn't work for me. So what we do together is you are doing your training and I'm going to have a look at how much you're taking.

Coach Tom (28:00.046)

Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yes.

Karelle (28:23.159)

We're all super different on this and this is why it has to be very personalized. So you could come to me and say, well, if we are a ride, know, Krel, I've had just like maybe one or two bars and that's about it. But I'm doing fine on my training. And that's where suddenly that same person would come to like four weeks. shoot, my race is in four weeks. I better try to have some gels. this is like sports nutrition is like religion. Everyone feels really

Kenny Bailey (28:24.264)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (28:41.469)

Yeah.

Karelle (28:53.109)

Howard about the opinion when you talk with other athletes and and they always say no this one this gel is better than this one and but it's a very personal choice it's like we don't have a favorite color or you don't have your same favorite food as me I don't like quinoa but it means that your gels needs to be doesn't matter how well they formulated it needs to work with you so one of the work we do when I'm working with athletes is we we it's it's our

Kenny Bailey (29:04.104)

Mm-hmm.

Coach Tom (29:09.612)

Yeah, yeah.

Kenny Bailey (29:09.864)

Yeah.

Karelle (29:22.999)

shopping day we usually call it, is you try out. I want you to try four or five different brands, you try different and see how it's palatable to you. Do you like it? Do you like it when it's a neutral flavour? Do you like it when it's more of a berry flavour? Or do you like it when it's more punchy? How is that working for you? And are you able to take two or three? Is it easy to open? Not easy to open? And do you prefer maybe something in a bottle rather than gel? you prefer whole

Kenny Bailey (29:52.734)

Yeah.

Karelle (29:53.031)

food and we go through all of this as a personal choice because this is really important to help you prepare your nutrition race strategy. Then we inc... yeah absolutely... yes.

Kenny Bailey (30:02.228)

Sorry to interrupt, but does weather count? Because I think sometimes when I'm dealing 90 degree, you know, I don't know how many Celsius that is, like 27. Okay, yeah. That's a different story than when it's cooler into the early season, right? Is what, not just because of the sweat, but because you're really, really hot and you're cranky and try to get another sweet thing in can sometimes be tough. Is that also a factor?

Karelle (30:10.023)

Yeah, it's butthurt-y, yeah.

Karelle (30:14.953)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Karelle (30:27.207)

Yeah. Yes, so what happens all down to your stress response, which you may not have as much when you're training, because if you're training, you may do like two or three hours. So you're able to have a bar, you're able to have whole food. OK, so your saliva is still present. Now, your stress response, you remember how the fight or flight works, right? I can see it's coming to you now. You're like, now I know what's happening.

Kenny Bailey (30:32.616)

Got it.

Okay.

Kenny Bailey (30:39.604)

Yeah. Bye.

Kenny Bailey (30:48.372)

Got it. Yeah, yeah.

Coach Tom (30:52.206)

Yee.

Kenny Bailey (30:52.828)

Yeah.

Karelle (30:56.105)

Because your stress response is activated your body is like well, we don't need to digest food right now We don't need to reproduce. We don't need to heal. We don't need the human system We don't need to to be you know fighting a cold Because clearly is fighting for his life on his bike and he's racing a god knows who So every blood cells are sent to your to your legs for you to you know, so to fight for your life

Coach Tom (31:17.644)

Hahaha

Kenny Bailey (31:17.715)

Yeah.

Karelle (31:26.039)

So what happens is saliva is reducing and the heat may be the pushing point at that moment for you, right? It could be that you haven't been drinking enough, but the saliva usually is a sign of you are you having a firefly response, which you do in a race. So I always going to have clients to say, but I'm fine to eat bars when I'm training, but then in the middle of the race, I couldn't eat anything. Then I didn't take any food because

Kenny Bailey (31:29.481)

Got it.

Kenny Bailey (31:43.293)

Interesting.

Kenny Bailey (31:52.308)

Yep. Yep.

Karelle (31:55.911)

Because in race you don't have the same pressure that you have when you are in the training. So we talk about all of this because I'm saying if you have whole food, I want you to have it in the first hour. Don't even think about having it later in the race, right?

Kenny Bailey (32:02.526)

Makes sense.

Coach Tom (32:11.406)

that's okay, that's good to know.

Kenny Bailey (32:12.286)

Got it.

Karelle (32:14.405)

Now, Tom, if you are saying to me, I'm going from Nashville to California on the bike and leisurely and someone's following you, it's different. You don't have the same stress because you are cruising. You're more of an adventure, right? So, but as soon as you have your stress response activated, your saliva is reduced, your digestion is reduced. And this is why we have more digestive upset during a race or because when we are doing the training,

Kenny Bailey (32:41.085)

Yeah.

Karelle (32:44.329)

I try to push athletes to that. So I would always try to, where you are at, increase 10%, 10%, 10%. And there will be a moment where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna overload you this weekend. You're gonna need to take this amount of food. I want you to come back to me and tell me how you've been feeling. Is this too much? And there is a moment where you're gonna say, well, actually, Carole, it was two gels too much. I was like, I hated you. Did you not hear me swear? And be like, ugh.

Coach Tom (33:08.674)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kenny Bailey (33:08.904)

Yeah.

Karelle (33:14.199)

that's where we are then okay this is your threshold I know that's your threshold so we go under

Kenny Bailey (33:18.578)

That, by the way, mean, epiphany number two on this show, right? One was the whole, you know, prep meal, but absolutely. Cause I mean, I know I've seen that. I've seen other people do that where they feel really good on the training program. think they got the fuel dialed down. They get to the race and it's like, I don't know what happened, but my stomach couldn't, know, because of this or because of that. And, you know, I think to your point, you know, if the fighter flights kicking in because of that pressure, now it's gotten from a six to an eight. suddenly you're like, I thought I had my fuel dialed in, but some reason during the race, it just sort of.

Karelle (33:39.711)

Yeah.

Karelle (33:45.599)

But you don't.

Kenny Bailey (33:46.716)

Yeah, and it's like I didn't take as much as I thought and maybe it was because I wasn't paying attention or whatever else when in fact your body's, you're trying to figure out how to either understand what that eight feels like or try to move your back down to a six, right? I guess it'd be the, okay.

Karelle (33:56.319)

Yeah.

Karelle (33:59.983)

Exactly.

Well, you can't really reduce stress because stress comes on its own. He can be resilient to stress. The only thing you can do is anticipate. So a lot of the work that sometimes I would do is visualization. But when we work towards a personalized nutrition strategy plan, we usually work to a point where I had a call this morning with an athlete who is just doing a race this weekend and I've sent him his final plan last week and I called him back this morning and I was like, okay, so how are going?

Kenny Bailey (34:05.48)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (34:06.99)

It, yeah.

Kenny Bailey (34:11.048)

Okay.

Karelle (34:30.967)

It's like I'm already it's all prepared. I've just had a ride like it's down to You it's almost embedded in you at that point as you are coming out of the house doing your shoelace before you go for does it make sense because You know how you know how if you start and it's so interesting There's an a moment where you feel the switch where when you're not used to? fueling during your effort and you're certainly feeling and you if you for example fuel every 45 minutes

Coach Tom (34:45.614)

Hmm.

Karelle (35:00.887)

Suddenly you look at your body, my god it's 45 minutes. How did I just perfectly timing it like I'm hungry. It's spot on. It's because we condition you to start doing that. So during the race you already like conditioned and you already know. So it doesn't feel as hard as someone who's practiced once or twice if not at all on their nutrition. had practice on something and hasn't actually tested it, tested the product.

that they use on the race, which that happens all the time because you're like, I didn't realize this race had this gel and not this gel. But we practice on this one.

Coach Tom (35:33.969)

yeah.

Kenny Bailey (35:41.118)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (35:41.484)

We do what we practice. We do what we practice. So what we do repetitively every single day is what we're going to fall back to. We're not gonna have any of this miraculous performance or we're not gonna eat better just because it's race day. We're gonna fall back to exactly what our habits are. And that's where we kind of fall into that. I try to get athletes to test that out. And like you said, you can go and do shopping day.

Karelle (35:47.059)

Yeah.

Karelle (35:54.015)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (36:06.914)

there's most of the manufacturers, the food manufacturers for the gels and stuff, they have sample packs. Like just go buy a whole bunch of sample packs of everything. You can find maybe this particular gel doesn't work for you because you tried the wrong flavor. Maybe the grape works for you, but the margarita doesn't, right? So you go through and you try all of those and mark down what works, what doesn't work, make some notes.

Karelle (36:14.343)

Yeah? Yeah?

Karelle (36:23.775)

Exactly.

Coach Tom (36:34.03)

so that you have that, get rid of the stuff that doesn't work for you, and then that's what you start pounding and going through. So I think I need to figure out a way to create that flight or fight response in my athletes during training. Maybe if there's an app I create that I just yell at them constantly, they put their phone up and I just scream at them constantly, we'll create that fight or flight, which will simulate race day, maybe, I don't know.

Kenny Bailey (36:39.262)

Yeah.

Karelle (36:50.357)

I

Kenny Bailey (36:50.676)

You

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

Karelle (36:58.227)

I

I think what's important is it's really difficult to reproduce that. But what's really important is doing a lot of visualization. And in the last session or two sessions that I would have with clients is we go through that. You know, what do you do on the way? Have you looked at your race guide? And we go through the race guide together. We go through sometimes the race. I've got an athlete doing an ultra in Verde in Switzerland and it's 170k. And we looked at the, when are we going to take our fueling?

Looking at all of this helps an athlete to prepare the visualization. Okay, we're looking at full race. So you know how to change your tires. no, I don't. Okay, so what happens if you have a puncture? Well, I'm screwed. No, you sit down tomorrow, you go at home and you try to change your tires. It's going to take you 15 minutes. What is 15 minutes on the three hour race or six or seven hours if it's a full? It's nothing. 16, it's nothing. So do that. And what is

Coach Tom (37:41.42)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're fixin'. Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (37:50.921)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (37:54.594)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (37:58.811)

stressing you about this race. Well I'm stressed about, you know, I'm stressed about all of this and then we'll look at that because I think there's a whole part of that anticipation of stress where when it comes to you during that moment you're like well I'm prepared for that. I'm prepared for that right? I've lost my bottle but I'm prepared for that. Exactly.

Kenny Bailey (38:16.722)

Y-Y-Yeah, so... Yeah, let me-

Coach Tom (38:19.822)

So you're responding instead of reacting to the stress. that's, we talked about that in a podcast just recently where that's part of it. Like you just, I try to go with my athletes to do the same thing. We talk about everything's good. We're set up. Okay. Now what happens when your goggles get kicked off your face? What happens if you get hit in the swim? What are you going to like start thinking about all the bad things that can happen? Not in a way to get you all riled up to think about it. You stress about it, but think about it. It's like, well, what would you do?

Kenny Bailey (38:23.346)

Yeah, I th- There you go. Yeah.

Karelle (38:32.586)

Yeah.

Karelle (38:44.369)

make you stress exactly.

Coach Tom (38:49.014)

I don't know, we're in a nice calm environment now. What would happen if my goggles got taken out? Well, I would slow down and stop, grab onto whatever, put my goggles back on and then continue. Same thing with flat tire. How do we deal with things that could happen? You just have to anticipate it. It knocks that stress response down when it actually, if it does actually happen during the race. Yes, absolutely.

Karelle (39:08.019)

Because things do happen. I mean, I've raced enough to know that things do happen. You have done just a cycling around Fondo last year. We all got lost.

Kenny Bailey (39:10.386)

Yeah, I think that's.

Coach Tom (39:21.82)

Yeah.

Karelle (39:22.901)

I don't know who the hell was at the front but at some point I was like it's weird because my GPS keeps saying and then I was told it was like the first 10 kilometers and then suddenly people turned around I was just laughing thinking we just added 10 kilometers to our tour but it means that you know then I was really cross with myself because I was like actually I knew the road and I knew the GPS was right so why on earth was I following everyone and

Kenny Bailey (39:26.418)

Hahaha

Coach Tom (39:34.83)

Oops.

Yeah, nice.

Coach Tom (39:51.758)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (39:52.817)

And all of this shouldn't make you stress on the moment if you prepared for that. If you're okay, well, it's a mistake, mean, move on. Now we need to move on. We are the rest of the race and I need to make sure I fuel regularly because I've got 10 kilometers extra on the 100, right? So it means that you need to plan for that. that's really, yeah.

Coach Tom (40:15.256)

recalculate.

Kenny Bailey (40:15.784)

Yeah, think the part that's think difficult for a lot of people isn't necessarily that, you know, I put the plan together, the plan's working, you know, if it goes awry for any reason, that's one thing. You know, we talk a lot about, you know, RPE, Rate of Perceived Effort, right? So, you know, I trained for Iron Man California, everything was great. I get there, there's a 40 mile an hour headwind.

Karelle (40:40.532)

Mm-hmm.

Kenny Bailey (40:40.56)

And so I could try to force my speed or force whatever, but I looked at my watts, my rate of perceived effort and said, whatever the mileage is, the mileage is going to be. I think part of the problem when people get in trouble, don't, don't. What does it feel like when you start to ooze on down, you know, that, that bonking route? So how do I, I think that's the part people don't realize they're bonking until in the middle of bonking. Right. So are there early indicators?

Karelle (40:46.249)

Yeah.

Karelle (41:05.181)

Yeah, I often have that question.

Kenny Bailey (41:08.018)

You know, are there early indicators that say, hey, I may be starting down a danger zone. How do I course correct? Right. Cause I can look at my heart rate on the physical side, you know, and how do you, how do you start? That's my biggest challenge, right? It's almost like rot row. And now I'm already in that bonk zone or, know, I may be too dehydrated because I'm starting to fall apart or my RPE is going up on, on what shouldn't be. It was a similar thing. How do, how do, what are those signs? How do I know if I'm starting to slide a little?

Karelle (41:36.403)

It's.

It's interesting because when I do podcasts or record it, it's often a question I have. How do you tackle banking and bonking and how do you anticipate? The first question is, again, needs to be, you know, you need to fuel regularly during that race. If you fuel regularly and you put a plan together with me, for example, there shouldn't be any banking and bonking because I usually would have planned for that.

Kenny Bailey (41:46.547)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (42:00.687)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kenny Bailey (42:03.55)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Karelle (42:07.125)

happens and it can happen in a race or it can happen on training. It means that ultimately your brain for sure at that moment has a perceived reduce of glucose coming up. So that's where you starting to feel like, this is really hard. I'm not sure I can do it. The heat is getting to me. That bloody wind. Seriously that wind again. actually I feel that the time I've got you need to fuel straight away. Do not like this.

Kenny Bailey (42:24.372)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Karelle (42:37.015)

This is where you can adapt the plan. The plan is there, but it doesn't matter. If I said to you, you need to fuel every 40 minutes, then if you feel like you're bonking, and there could be multiple reasons, even if you had a great plan, but there could have been a climb of 18 % that we didn't anticipate it because they changed the route or it wasn't on the plan or anything, then you need...

Kenny Bailey (42:56.713)

or the water was super choppy and I was now I'm on the bike and expended a lot of energy. Yeah.

Karelle (42:59.195)

Exactly. So you need to fuel earlier and you need to adjust your nutrition plan and probably take a little bit more. Don't take four gels in a row, but maybe like, okay, well, instead of 30 minutes, I'm going to try every 20 minutes and then I will come out of this because you will come out of this. So at that point, it's a, it's, it's a power of your mental to be able to, and I remember many, many years ago, there was a Frodeno when he was doing Kona and

Coach Tom (42:59.948)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (43:03.475)

Okay.

Karelle (43:29.129)

And one of the Konae was struggling and I was listening to a podcast with him and something that I carried a lot in races when I struggle where he's like, you know, you have pain. Okay, my knee is starting to hurt or I'm starting to feel really like it's hard. And his thing was on a scale of one to 10, how hard is this? Or how much is my knee hurting? And then you go into your mind and you deep, you really dive deep into that. And then by the time you finish it, like, I don't feel my knee anymore.

Coach Tom (43:58.902)

Yeah.

Karelle (43:58.951)

We keep going and it works every time so find tricky, you know tricks that are helpful to you and you use them on training and I would always say don't train with music train without music because you need to be comfortable in the uncomfortable if you only meet yourself for the first time in a race if you only discover who you really are for the first time in a race It's it's it's really hard to do that

Kenny Bailey (43:59.195)

Here we go!

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (44:16.504)

Mm-hmm.

Karelle (44:29.075)

You need to discover yourself and enjoy that. Enjoy that company. Enjoy this little discussion of, okay, I keep going a little bit further and then or whatever happens in your mind in a race because that's the fun part, right? That's the fun part of racing. It's all of this layer you take away of your personality at the beginning and again,

Kenny Bailey (44:29.086)

Yeah.

Karelle (44:52.699)

One of the races in Colombo I did, was Julie Moss was doing a talk and she said, you know, at the beginning, we all care about how we look, like, especially women, I don't know about you guys, but you know, the color of your tri-suit and how, you know, do you have your nails done and your hair looking good? That's it. And then as you go along, you start to lift the layers and nobody care at some point how we look. You just...

Kenny Bailey (45:01.705)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (45:02.85)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Kenny Bailey (45:04.977)

Yeah.

Yeah, you're peacocking the whole time,

Kenny Bailey (45:13.873)

Good.

Coach Tom (45:15.8)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (45:16.666)

100%. You got snot coming out of your thing. You don't care, right? You're... Yeah.

Karelle (45:20.463)

Exactly and I thought it was a really good description because you read and that's also part of training, right? It's also part of finding those moments where it resonates to you what works to you when you are struggling and you have a 20k run and you really don't want to do it and all you think about is the four emails that you haven't been able to reply to so it's really important to find these moments.

Coach Tom (45:44.28)

Yeah, that self-talk and training on race day. That's, that self-talk that you have for race day is, is needs to be trained. needs to be consistent with your training to go through so that you know how you're going to get yourself out of the bad times. Cause you will have those lulls and the longer the race, you'll have more of them and they might be steeper cliffs that you're going to fall off at that point. people have always asked me,

Kenny Bailey (45:44.678)

I love that don't discover yourself on the day of race day. is, that is, there's the title right there, right? You know.

Karelle (45:47.517)

No, on race day.

Karelle (45:57.045)

and needs to be trained.

Karelle (46:02.984)

Yeah.

Karelle (46:11.999)

But you always come back up. But you always come back up.

Coach Tom (46:13.294)

You always come back up. You're always going to get through it. You just have to know that you're going to get through it and you have to get that part of training. People always ask me on my runs, my long runs or my long training, what's going through my head? And it's just, I'm just running head to toe, a systems analysis going like, okay, that hurts a little bit. Okay, this, this, okay, that's normal. Yeah, no hip. Yeah, that's fine. Little cramp. Is that a cramp? No, not a cramp. Okay, it's good. And I'm just like, you go head to toe, head to toe, head to toe. Just, I'm just constantly checking.

Kenny Bailey (46:29.512)

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Karelle (46:30.739)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (46:42.23)

my system, so is it going through? So why is my elbow hurting today? And I was like, am I doing something with my run? Okay, now that's good. I'm just, checking every level of everything and it gets to a certain level of discomfort. And that's normal. And that normal pain level I know is normal and the longer the run is or whatever. And I go, okay, that's great. And I just wait for it to kind of peak past that. As soon as it starts peaking past that, then I know like, okay, this is something to keep an eye on. But it's all through the training.

Karelle (46:55.562)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (47:11.726)

It's all what you do in your training every day that you get comfortable with certain levels of discomfort. And that's, you just rely back to that piece again. So it goes through.

Karelle (47:12.212)

Yeah.

Karelle (47:17.94)

Yeah.

Exactly. I think it's the fun part.

Kenny Bailey (47:21.778)

Yeah, and I think that's, you yeah, when people ask, right, like, how do you do this? It's like, well, you're going to get to a, you're going to get to a fatigue level, right? And you just want that to plateau. And I'm just going to, I'm, know, I'm not going to get any worse, but I'm not going to get any better, right? That's the part I want to be at. It's not going to get any better. It's going to be sore. It's going to hurt when it starts spiking. That's when things get bad, right? Where I get a...

Coach Tom (47:30.584)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Karelle (47:31.272)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (47:37.55)

Yep.

Karelle (47:42.217)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (47:44.11)

No.

Karelle (47:50.037)

you

Kenny Bailey (47:51.476)

I feel lonely.

Kenny Bailey (48:03.092)

Well, that's a problem.

Coach Tom (48:44.067)

Ahem.

Kenny Bailey (00:34.745)

Yeah, so what I like to tell, you when people ask me like, do you do these endurance sports and, you know, how do you survive that long? It's really, it's not necessarily, you get to a level where you get to this plateau and that's where you really want to be at. It's not going to get any better and you hope it doesn't get any worse. And that's where you're going to be. You're going to be at this pain threshold or this fatigue threshold or whatever that is, that plateau, just stay there. And then if it starts popping up because of fuel, because of water, because that becomes a problem.

Ultimately, you just want to be there, right? Where to your point, your knee may be acting funky, but it's a level four and it's going to get any worse. So now you're just going to get used to a level four pain for a while. And I think that's sort of what think what people that don't do these endurance sports understand. It's not this linear thing that goes all the way up and then, you you get to pain level 100 and hope you get to the finish line. It's you get to that fatigue level where with any luck, it doesn't get any worse, but it's certainly not going to get any better. And you got to be comfortable with that.

Karelle (01:06.178)

you

Karelle (01:31.469)

I definitely don't think I'm at the highest pain level. think, you know, when I hear athletes that are winning races, yeah, I'm like, yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (01:33.425)

So.

Kenny Bailey (01:39.952)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (01:40.664)

Yeah, it's discomfort, right? It's really discomfort. We talk about being comfortable being uncomfortable, and it's basically what's your level of discomfort. We're not talking stabbing, sharp pain, that type of stuff. That's completely different. This is a level of discomfort that's so uncomfortable, whereas, and your training builds that, right? Your training builds that level of discomfort of what you can manage and what you know is, okay, this is just the brain warning you way early.

Kenny Bailey (01:42.575)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Karelle (01:49.501)

Yes. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (01:50.288)

Yeah.

Exactly.

Karelle (01:53.301)

No.

Kenny Bailey (01:57.861)

Yep.

Karelle (01:58.061)

works for you.

Kenny Bailey (02:01.798)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (02:10.341)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (02:10.574)

and you push through it and you just raise that threshold of what you're able to endure. that's, yeah, that's why, I don't know, some of us do these sports is just to push ourselves and see how much further we can go.

Kenny Bailey (02:20.816)

Yeah.

Karelle (02:20.941)

And it's really interesting because depending on, know, the same athletes could go through different challenges in their lives and there's moments where they can't cope with that same discomfort during a race and it's okay to then race at a different level and then come back to it after you've had those challenges because we're we are whole, right? We're not compartmentalized and you're not just an athlete but you're also a human being. If something is going wrong at work,

Kenny Bailey (02:31.941)

Exactly.

Karelle (02:51.015)

and you are under lot of pressure or if it's at home then you can't have the same level of discomfort when you're racing and it's okay because next year can be different and next year you're gonna smash it.

Coach Tom (02:58.69)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (03:04.045)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (03:04.369)

Well, Tom and I have been preaching on all these episodes, Is, oh good, my printer came. That was my bill. Just a small amount, just sign it. But I think it's really important that it's like, you don't have the mental, you may not want to be physically, want to put yourself through that for 12 hours, because your why isn't there anymore, right?

Karelle (03:11.239)

Sorry, could you hear that? I don't know why it's...

Coach Tom (03:12.494)

Just just just sliding right in

Karelle (03:18.061)

I'm so sorry.

Kenny Bailey (03:31.472)

But it's perfectly okay. It's not that you're settling for a sprint or you're settling for an Olympic distance or you're settling for another one. It just means that maybe I just like the idea of going fast for a short amount of time for a while because I just want to mix it up a little bit. That it's not, well, I can't do a full, so therefore I'm just going to do a half. It's not just a half. You approach it differently, it's a half. Or it's not just a sprint. Go have fun. And maybe you want to look at fast twitch muscles instead.

Karelle (03:33.984)

yeah.

Coach Tom (03:50.894)

to have.

Kenny Bailey (03:58.578)

Try to frame it in a way that it's like yeah, my why was here. I'm okay. My why matches my my suffer level I'm okay with that right? I think I want to you know, I'm that way right I did the Iron Man, you know a half for me is that's a nice why and a nice suffer level Right where where I'm at in my life kind of deal or I may want to go shorter distance and just go fast I want to go fast and short because that'll be fun, right and that's okay you know Yeah, and it's kind of get used to

Karelle (04:14.637)

Hmm.

Coach Tom (04:19.608)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (04:21.549)

Or switch to a different endurance sports. Or paddle. And who is not doing high rocks at the moment? I'm not. Not yet.

Coach Tom (04:26.806)

Yeah, paddle, do something else.

Kenny Bailey (04:27.565)

Stop it.

Coach Tom (04:31.896)

my god, me. Thank you. Not, yeah, not doing. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (04:33.589)

I am actually, November in Chicago, I'm gonna go do high rocks. Because I needed that switch up, right? I needed that, you know, what's 180 beats for an hour and a half and I'm gonna go lift heavy crap. So, it'll be fun.

Karelle (04:39.979)

That's a whole different level of

Coach Tom (04:42.434)

Yeah, mix it up, have some fun.

Karelle (04:46.295)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (04:47.5)

Yeah, yeah. what, for fueling for our races, we talk about whole foods. We started talking about whole foods and getting in this thing. And we had the epiphany here that the whole foods on your racing and your training probably should be in the first hour or so. And then switching out after that, what are good whole foods that will get us what we need? Because we need glucose, we need sugar.

Karelle (05:16.811)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (05:16.888)

carbs. Is it complex carbs? Is it potatoes? We've talked, I've always done little red potatoes or something on there every so often, but I've, I've, I've tried it later in the race and it hasn't worked quite as well. Now I know why. What, what can we do to fuel ourselves a little bit more naturally, or at least mix up our palette?

Karelle (05:30.679)

Yeah.

Karelle (05:37.057)

This is.

Yes, so let's look at all the food that you could have during exercise. So you could have from unprocessed. So would be whole food. You can have potatoes, sweet potatoes. But I think that is the question is always what are you expecting from this race? Are you expecting to and I always ask this question when I have new clients and they're signing up for a race. So what are you? Are you just looking to have fun and exercise?

Kenny Bailey (05:58.61)

Hmm.

Karelle (06:08.815)

find something in the race, are you expecting to be qualifying for the World Championship, are you expecting to do a great time? This will then allow you to make the decision about the nutrition you want. If you are saying to me, oh, Coral, I'm doing my first full Ironman and I'm really hoping to qualify for Kona, I'd be like, well, Whole Food may not be the right approach because you want to know exactly how much we're taking and we need to dial that. We can't leave anything to the last minute surprise.

Okay, so then If you are doing an ultra or if you are doing a trail run if you are doing something that is slightly different then your pace will be also different then you are Almost it's almost easier to have whole food Okay, so whole food can be has its place on the race day and it the positivity is not always sweet So you don't always have that sweetness in the mouth. You can also have things that are a little bit more neutral

aspects or salty food people would say but it's just that so you could have been a better sandwich you could have

like you say, potatoes, sweet potatoes. A lot of people would try different things. There's compote as well, fruit puree. I'm always really careful with lot of fibers during the race because fibers, not because it's going to make you want to go to the bathroom more often, but fiber tends to, it's the opposite of what we say in day-to-day nutrition. If you increase your fiber intake, it's going to balance your blood sugar. So what you're gonna do in the race, if you increase fibers, it's going to buffer that blood sugar, right?

Kenny Bailey (07:23.131)

Mm-hmm.

Karelle (07:45.513)

So it means you don't have blood sugar as high.

So you do it and you want that, you need that. So your blood sugar needs to be lower when you are day to day. When you are in a race, you want it to be higher because you're constantly having to. So there's positive and negative and this needs to be really looked into detail. The frequency, how often you're eating, turning, rotating between, you know, shoes and whole food or et cetera. In perspective of races where you're more of

Coach Tom (07:49.452)

And we want that. We need it for the racing. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (07:50.827)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (07:58.702)

Got it.

Karelle (08:19.343)

I would say maybe a zone three or four, you won't be able to digest for very long or to chew for very long. We talked about that with the saliva. So therefore you could try to do this at the beginning of the race if you want and then move on to perhaps bars and gels and then you have your powder. This would be in disorder. But I think it takes a lot of experience and discipline and trying to have whole food.

Coach Tom (08:41.059)

Okay.

Karelle (08:49.263)

before you can experience that in a race because it's very, very difficult to know how is that going to be, if you have whole food you need to eliminate it as well. So does it make you want to go to the bathroom more regularly? Is that going to trigger more GI distress? Equally. So it really depends on the race, it depends on the athlete.

Coach Tom (08:51.809)

Okay.

Kenny Bailey (09:00.997)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (09:11.045)

Yeah. Good.

Coach Tom (09:11.894)

Yeah, for my ultra races, the runs especially, I shared with you before, my favorite ultimate food, the ultimate super food is pancakes. And there's nothing, nothing better. I will stand by this at 2 a.m. running through the woods in the middle of the night with a small stack of pancakes in your hand. Eating that is the most amazing thing, experience on the world, and it powers me through till sunrise. So it's great.

Karelle (09:17.612)

That's it.

Kenny Bailey (09:26.609)

you

Karelle (09:29.154)

Yeah.

Karelle (09:35.361)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (09:38.822)

Yeah.

Karelle (09:39.149)

and race yeah no exactly and race is like that because you are for

Coach Tom (09:40.778)

not so good during an Iron Man.

Karelle (09:48.115)

Obviously longer hours we we're talking 20 hours and more was ultra and What's the goal is that it needs to be palatable? The goal is you need to get food in So you would often see it depends how fast people are going and I'm always completely blown away when you see You know in the back please or races like that when they sit down for 10 seconds change yourself and same times They're eating two slices of pizza, but because it needs to be palatable now. We're not

Coach Tom (09:52.334)

us.

Coach Tom (09:58.166)

Yeah. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (09:58.908)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (10:15.089)

Hmm.

Coach Tom (10:17.57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (10:17.999)

at the same level. But it's also really interesting because then you're like, oh wow, they're eating pizza? But it needs to be palatable. So it doesn't matter what you're eating at that moment because the goal is that you get food in. You need to get food in. And for you, the pancake is what gets you to eat. For someone else, it is a pizza. So it really doesn't, yeah. Not that I'm saying it should be a...

Coach Tom (10:31.852)

Yes. Yes.

Kenny Bailey (10:36.229)

Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (10:36.928)

Yes.

It's a piece of yet. Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (10:41.135)

Yeah.

Coach Tom (10:45.688)

Hahaha!

Kenny Bailey (10:45.873)

But to your point, it's better to get calories in. you're not minding your cholesterol in the middle of a race. You're not like, what is my fat count? You're like, I need fuel. And if that's the thing that gets me to fuel, then that's the thing that gets me to fuel.

Karelle (10:48.415)

It has to be.

Coach Tom (10:51.662)

Yeah.

Karelle (10:52.587)

This is not... no. Yeah. Exactly. You need...

Coach Tom (10:54.348)

You need calories, yeah. And we need sugar. We need glucose, yeah. We need glucose. We need to get that. That's what our muscles need. And the faster, the shorter the race, the more you need that, right? You need that for sure.

Kenny Bailey (11:03.515)

Yeah. Yeah.

Karelle (11:03.565)

Exactly.

Kenny Bailey (11:09.221)

Yeah. Yeah, in the back half of Iron Man Arizona it was Coca-Cola and chicken broth. It worked.

Karelle (11:09.591)

exactly.

Karelle (11:15.295)

And that's amazing. So Coca-Cola is, it's funny, I was talking about it with, well, and it's a really good way after maybe after a big break if you have a...

Coach Tom (11:20.417)

It's rocket fuel.

Kenny Bailey (11:22.363)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Karelle (11:28.321)

big training block the next day to replenish your glycogen storage. And people have always said, really? You're saying Coca-Cola is okay? Yes, because you get 30 grams straight in. I'm not saying you should drink Coca-Cola every day, but I think, again, we can't be always black and white. There is things out there that are available. So to your point, if you have your brick that is 20 minutes or half an hour drive away, get a Coca-Cola in at that moment on the way home.

Kenny Bailey (11:35.237)

Yeah. It's a miracle drug. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Tom (11:39.957)

Yeah.

Karelle (11:58.257)

then you get your protein. That's it.

Kenny Bailey (11:58.746)

So good. Yeah.

Coach Tom (11:59.281)

It's always in my cooler. Yeah, from the big race, from the big event or right after a race, the first thing I want is I want an eight ounce can of Coke. I have it in the cooler. If I'm doing like a five, six, seven, eight hour bike training day, like first thing that I have when I finish is stop and I just, I chug the whole Coke and like, I feel so much better. And then I get in everything.

Kenny Bailey (12:03.365)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (12:07.92)

Yeah.

Karelle (12:19.263)

It just, it's... Yeah, I never drink coke, only if I'm on the bike and... Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kenny Bailey (12:19.771)

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. There you go. There you go.

Coach Tom (12:24.82)

Only in the only racing. Yeah, only during races or the heavy training right afterwards. Otherwise, I'm not I'm not drinking sodas any other time.

Karelle (12:33.269)

And broth is so good because broth has a lot of nutrients and it's going to be that not sweet but more salty flavor. So for a lot of people, broth could be with my athletes in Singapore, there's always the track session that is quite late on the Tuesday evening and a lot of the athletes that I work with often say to me, the Tuesday, know, by the time I get home it's nine, so what do I do? I'm not hungry.

Coach Tom (12:34.979)

Yeah.

Kenny Bailey (12:42.993)

Correct. Yeah.

Coach Tom (12:43.586)

Yes. Yeah.

Karelle (13:03.183)

The one that I'm suggesting, just get a broth, go and have your shower because it's just certainly going to open your appetite, but then you're getting in all those really nice nutrients, especially rich in sodium. So if your climate is really hot, you're rebalancing and getting that really good electrolyte. And again, it's not a sweet thing that you're getting in at that moment, so it really is helpful. So broth is good one.

Kenny Bailey (13:19.024)

Yep.

Coach Tom (13:29.246)

is great. Yeah, yeah. So good. So we have like, we had a couple epiphanies. We've learned a whole bunch more. So, Corell, thank you. This is always fun. We'll have you back on again, because we've got, I know we can talk about lots more. We're trying to deep dive in on some things for our training to get us eating better, eating right, and certainly figuring out our meal prep and getting through the week. So we always appreciate your time.

Kenny Bailey (13:29.551)

Yevherd Broth.

Karelle (13:31.799)

Yeah.

Karelle (13:40.683)

You're welcome.

Kenny Bailey (13:41.135)

Yeah, this is always fun.

Karelle (13:44.087)

Pleasure.

Karelle (13:59.457)

Thank you. And I've just wrote a few blogs on the website, Tom. think maybe they would be interesting just at the time of the seasons. And they really targeted for athletes as well. how do you, very similar to what we talked about, but I think sometimes it's quite good to read that quietly. Yeah.

Coach Tom (13:59.736)

Thank you. Thank you.

Coach Tom (14:07.872)

cool.

Coach Tom (14:11.864)

Perfect.

Coach Tom (14:17.454)

I'll add those to the show notes for sure. I'll make sure that gets on there. She's got a lot of really good recipes on on there as well. I still do the egg bake one. The egg muffin bake that you have on there is really fantastic. So try out some of the recipes on there. They're really simple, easy to make. They taste great. And we'll put your website and all your contact and Instagram stuff as we usually do in the show notes and all of that. So

Kenny Bailey (14:20.337)

There you go.

Karelle (14:43.767)

Thank you. Thank you.

Kenny Bailey (14:45.617)

You

Coach Tom (14:46.062)

Everybody thanks for thanks for tuning in and listening if you're following on YouTube or any of the audio version of this. We appreciate all your feedback so if you got questions comments please let us know. I think on our Buzzsprout thing you can text us directly plus email, Instagram, Facebook. I try to get to the messages sometimes I find ones that are out there that I just didn't realize that you sent a message and I try to get back to you when I can but please keep that up.

Let us know what you want to hear. Give us five stars, thumbs up, and don't forget to subscribe so that we drop new episodes you'll know about it right away. So, Corell, again, thank you so much. And Kenny, always fun. Everybody, we'll catch you on the next one.

Kenny Bailey (15:28.625)

Thank you.

Karelle (15:28.717)

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, bye.